Notaio responsibility verifying payment

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Notaio responsibility verifying payment

Post by casa del campanile on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:55 pm

“Technical” question on Notaio function

What is the responsibility of a Notaio to ascertain the “validity” of the method of payment at the closing of a real estate sale in Italy? In forty plus years of real estate dealing, buying and selling in Europe and obviously in the lower price brackets, have always had all cash transactions. Does the Notaio have to verify the validity of the payment method?

If the seller accepts a check, personal, bank draft, certified, whatever, does the Notaio have any responsibility to determine the validity of such payment or is the seller’s willingness to accept such payment satisfactory, provided, however the stated price/value is legitimate.
Or accepting stock certificates, bitcoins, other property in exchange, or a partridge in a pear tree?
Every transaction we have had, the Notaio always left the room or turned his back when the payment was handed over so how would he know what the payment actually consisted of. Anyone have any wisdom on this?
Thanks,
Fred
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Re: Notaio responsibility verifying payment

Post by modicasa on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:20 am

If the notary turned his back then the assumption must be that there was something illegal going on, such as underdeclaration.   The notary must, now, account for the payment - and most insist on assegni circolari only, (or bonifico).  Cash is not permitted and personal cheques are discouraged.   The method of payment must be inserted into the text of the atto, with cheque number, bank of provenance and all the other data.   The parties anyway need this for antirecycling.  Many banks ask for a copy of the act to show the provenance of the money deposited.

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Notaio responsibility verifying payment

Post by casa del campanile on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:36 am

Thanks for the information. The last time we bought, "underdeclaration" seemed to be accepted practice so we never questioned it. You say personal checks are discouraged, however are they acceptable? Are cashier's checks from other countries acceptable, if only to reduce currency exchange costs?
Thanks,
Fred
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Re: Notaio responsibility verifying payment

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:34 am

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Notaio responsibility verifying payment

Post by casa del campanile on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:42 am

Maria,
thanks for the info. One of the questions I have regards the possibility of accepting a US bank cashier's check from a buyer as payment for an Italian property. If a British seller sells to another Brit, can they deal in pounds between themselves and provide some form of proof of payment to the Notaio so they can avoid paying the exchange fees? Same for any other transaction between foreigners, EU or not, whereby they transact with local currency, if other than Euro, and provide an acceptable proof of payment. From what I have been able to discern from all the dialogue is that an Italian bank has to be able to get their hands on the money at some point and collect some fees. Please forgive the cynicism.
Hope things progressing well for you and yours.

Fred
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Re: Notaio responsibility verifying payment

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:09 am

http://www.italybuyingguide.com/content/italy-role-notary-italy 
Yes, Fred, it is all instrumented by the Italian government to control operations and to benefit Italian banks in the process. But this is it... Even if you are a buyer and you have the right to appoint your own notary. He/she is really working to protect the government... at least according to that link.
Be prepared to loose some money... if you manage to sell, which is difficult in the current economic client and your property is a gem and you are practically giving it away. Think at the great times you both spent there and forget the rest Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Notaio responsibility verifying payment

Post by Admin on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:02 am

I have translated at the signing of an atto where the purchaser paid in Euro from their UK bank (therefore GBP) via a CHAPS payment. We literally sat there while the Italian vendor's bank waited for confirmation the payment had been processed. At the end of the day, it is up to the Notary to accept such an arrangement so it is only s/he  who can say. IMO it is unlikely that a notary will be happy to accept a purchaser paying in USD all taking place in the US.

If it is bank fees you are worried about, as the vendor you don't have to pay any. The purchaser should be transferring the money in Euro to you and ticking the box to say they will pay all fees. You must receive the price agreed. If you receive Euro into an Italian bank account there is no fee to pay. If your bank is charging you to receive a Euro deposit then I would very strongly suggesting changing your bank account prior to the sale.
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Re: Notaio responsibility verifying payment

Post by modicasa on Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:21 am

The sale is in Italy, the sale is in euros. You can accept sterling or the Vietnamese dong, but you will need to provide an exchange rate and it must all be written into the atto.   Your cynicism is misplaced. The notary is there to make sure the sale is done properly and that require the seller to be paid the agreed amount.   That has to be proved, hence the long paragraphs written describing where and how the money is paid.  IF you sell within the eurozone there are no bank fees with SEPA transfers.   So you can sell to a Brit who pays in sterling but you will need issuing bank, receiving bank, exchange rate, etc.   As long as its all legal you can do what you like - you cannot pay in diamonds for example, and the buyer will still have to pay purchase taxes in Italy, in euros.

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