RENZI ELECTED LEADER

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RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Gala Placidia on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:59 am

A new leader, a generational change Renzi's election
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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by DarcyDog on Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:41 am

It's great to see a young man in charge for a change but I saw he lists Tony Blair as one of his idols so I'm afraid that has put me right off Mad

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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Gala Placidia on Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:00 pm

Well, at least he is young. Let's see what he has to offer... it could not be worse than what all the mummies in Italian politics have done until now.
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Is he Italian?

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:24 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:Well, at least he is young. Let's see what he has to offer... it could not be worse than what all the mummies in Italian politics have done until now.
Is he Italian? Ah well there goes any chance of things getting better.... But yes, we can live in hope!  Laughing  Laughing

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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:26 pm

I must admit to finding all politics these days very boring (think it's an age thing with me), but I did spot This BBC LINK about the man and even read it! I note they also link him with Tony Blair, who I know as "son of Margaret" or "smarm boy", so I'll look forward to seeing the smiling angel  Wink

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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Flip on Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:32 pm

Whatever you say about Tony Blair, he was
a) a Charismatic leader.
b) a force who changed British politics forever.
c) made a Country feel good about itself again.
Now if Renzi can do 2 out of 3 I would be happy. I know Blair made mistakes of judgement, but he made a lot of Brits regain some form of social justice which had been beaten out of the Country previously.
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Well Flip...

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:14 pm

Flip wrote:Whatever you say about Tony Blair, he was a) a Charismatic leader.b) a force who changed British politics forever.c) made a Country feel good about itself again.Now if Renzi can do 2 out of 3 I would be happy. I know Blair made mistakes of judgement, but he made a lot of Brits regain some form of social justice which had been beaten out of the Country previously.
... 1 out of 3 (nearly) is not too good... Did he change british policy for the good...? Or just add a whole load of greater dishonesty to the whole pile of .... they are.. A Tory in drag seems an apt description. Oddly enough the main criticism that normally comes his way is one where I was glad at least that he helped remove the most evil Saddam Hussein.

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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Neil D on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:25 pm

stevegwmonkseaton wrote:Oddly enough the main criticism that normally comes his way is one where I was glad at least that he helped remove the most evil Saddam Hussein.
 Maybe so but you can't take that in isolation.  Try telling that to the families of the 100,000 plus who died in the civil war which Bush and Blair bequeathed to the people of Iraq and it looks now as though the situation there is set to deteriorate still further...
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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Neil D on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:29 pm

Back to Italy: what are the chances of Letta remaining PM if he's no longer the leader of the party?  He has at least restored a sense of dignity and gravitas to Italy's image abroad.  I hope he can stay on.
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Glad to see you back on track Neil

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:24 pm

Neil D wrote:Back to Italy: what are the chances of Letta remaining PM if he's no longer the leader of the party?  He has at least restored a sense of dignity and gravitas to Italy's image abroad.  I hope he can stay on.
Glad to see you back on track Neil, because I suspect you are on very sticky ground where you were... Saddam is estimated to have killed 250,000 - 1,000,000 of his own people, I saw the pictures of the Kurds gassed by him; mothers still holding their babies and suspect he was guilt of even more horrific crimes...
On Italy, let's hope they don't get some disingenuous puppet like Blair, but then again looking at their past choice(s), perhaps that's what they like...

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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Gala Placidia on Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:58 pm

Neil D wrote:Back to Italy: what are the chances of Letta remaining PM if he's no longer the leader of the party?  He has at least restored a sense of dignity and gravitas to Italy's image abroad.  I hope he can stay on.
I do not think that Renzi will force an early election and I understand that he gets along very well with Letta. Renzi will need someone with Letta's experience on his side, so I will guess that they will cooperate. At least I do hope so. I also like Letta, but Italy needs a profound political reform and I think that Renzi wants to do that.
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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Carciofo on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:00 am

stevegwmonkseaton wrote:Glad to see you back on track Neil, because I suspect you are on very sticky ground where you were... Saddam is estimated to have killed 250,000 - 1,000,000 of his own people, I saw the pictures of the Kurds gassed by him; mothers still holding their babies and suspect he was guilt of even more horrific crimes...

Yes, but the people who should have got rid of him were his own people. In my opinion you cannot give people democracy. It has to be won/fought for by the people themselves.

In Italy, however, I am in favour of a British invasion. The Italians who come to Britain seem to be good citizens, so let the Italians all move here and all the Brits can sweep into Italy. A British invasion of Italy would stun the Mafia into giving up and all the Geordie's could baffle the Camorra with a language even more incomprehensible than neapolitan. Everyone would pay their taxes and the train services would become rubbish and expensive overnight. Now that Britain is a foodie haven, there isn't even a problem that the cooking would suffer. It's a perfect solution.

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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:04 am

Help! The Barbarians are coming! Not again! We would plunge into the Dark Ages! Call the Legions! Presto!
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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:42 pm

Carciofo wrote:
stevegwmonkseaton wrote:Glad to see you back on track Neil, because I suspect you are on very sticky ground where you were... Saddam is estimated to have killed 250,000 - 1,000,000 of his own people, I saw the pictures of the Kurds gassed by him; mothers still holding their babies and suspect he was guilt of even more horrific crimes...
Yes, but the people who should have got rid of him were his own people.  In my opinion you cannot give people democracy.  It has to be won/fought for by the people themselves.  
.......
He would have killed half the population by then....

Gala wrote:Help! The Barbarians are coming! Not again! We would plunge into the Dark Ages! Call the Legions! Presto!

No Gala that's rugby and we are quite good at that... I also sometimes think the world is still in the Dark Ages when you see what's happening around the world. I would love to see Renzi make a massive difference, just as long as he does not change the very thing that makes Italy so loved...

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Re: RENZI ELECTED LEADER

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:57 pm

Steve, I also agree in that Italy would not be the same without a certain degree of chaos and anarchy. They suit the place. On the other hand, it is ruled by elderly politicians who should have retired a long time ago. I would like to see Renzi introducing changes. He is a centre left man, but his leanings to the left are not as strong as what the Old Guard of the party. He is more of a traditional liberal, right in the centre, and this sounds good. Fingers crossed!
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