Votes for British expats

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Votes for British expats

Post by CharlotteOliver on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:54 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just wanted to highlight the topic of the right to vote for British citizens in UK general elections. as many know, after 15 years residence outside the UK you cannot register to vote. The next general election will be the last for me....!

Even the Commissioner for Justice Viviane Reding says the UK is punishing its citizens for exercising their right of free movment in Europe. Harry Shindler, now 93 has been campaigning on this issue since 2007, last year unfortunately the. European Court of Human Rights decided there was no violation. But the Committee on Petitions of the European Parliament has picked up the point and invited Harry to Brussels to speak at their next Meeting on Monday 20th January. Harry is not well so I will be going to represent him.

This issue needs more prominence, especially with European elections coming up, and most importantly with the looming prospect of a Referendum to vote the UK out of the EU. Surely we should be able to have our sy on that?

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Carciofo on Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:55 pm

Charlotte, many congratulations on your ground breaking success.  You should feel justly proud.

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by ghiro on Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:11 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:By the same token, you should take away the passports of all UK expats living overseas who do not pay taxes in the UK.
Illogical Gala.  Sad  Sad

If you want to live abroad and keep your UK passport - fine by me.
If you also want to live abroad and not pay UK taxes - fine by me.

But if you want to vote in a UK election which doesn't effect the tax you pay, but does effect the tax I pay - then certainly not fine by me.
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:13 am

Carciofo wrote:Charlotte, many congratulations on your ground breaking success.  You should feel justly proud.

So sorry Charlotte, my first comment should also have been along these lines. A man like Harry should not have to argue his case.

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:26 am

stevegwmonkseaton wrote:
Gala Placidia wrote:Ghiro and Steve, What can I say? Amazing answers!  Rolling Eyes  Following your line of thinking, you should be giving voting rights in the UK to all the Chinese, Russians, Turks, Senegalese and Syrian(and all other nationalities) who pay taxes in the UK. By the same token, you should take away the passports of all UK expats living overseas who do not pay taxes in the UK. And while you are at it, double check the Electoral Rolls with the Taxation Office, as you may be able to delete a few voters... By the way, to hold a passport is another citizenship right, just in case you did not realize it... same as voting.Charlotte, I totally agree with you.
Just shows your low level of thought and amazing ability to miss the obvious...
And this shows your very poor level of manners and education. If that is the level of the "average! British person (just quoting you)... God save the Queen and the rest of the Brits!
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:38 am

ghiro wrote:
Gala Placidia wrote:By the same token, you should take away the passports of all UK expats living overseas who do not pay taxes in the UK.
Illogical Gala.  Sad  Sad If you want to live abroad and keep your UK passport - fine by me.If you also want to live abroad and not pay UK taxes - fine by me.But if you want to vote in a UK election which doesn't effect the tax you pay, but does effect the tax I pay - then certainly not fine by me.





Ghiro,as I said before, both to hold national passports and to vote, even if you reside overseas, are basic citizenship rights, which are upheld and respected by most countries. Taxation has never been taken into account. Now, if you want "selective" voting rights, you are getting into a minefield. Also, I cannot recall when was the last time (if any) when any citizens from any country voted on matters related to taxation. Voting is done to elect representatives to Parliament. Direct voting on individual issues is a "referendum" and perhaps there you could apply some special rules.
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:48 am

Oh! By the way, ghiro, just as you mentioned the issue. One of the causes of the American Revolution (just one of the many, although it was used as their motto) was the fact that those expats living in America were not allowed to vote for parliamentary representatives who could talk on their behalf andd efend their rights. The British government was introducing taxes to be paid by those residing in America, which were going to finance some warsand debts that had nothing to do with the Americans. Just check American history sources.
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Vicino on Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:57 am

Time for a snooze !! Is patronising spelt with a small 'p' or capital 'P' ?

I think one seems to be agreeing to disagree ?!

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Admin on Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:48 pm

So, if I don't currently pay taxes in the UK, I have in the past and therefore who is elected and which laws they pass directly affect me, my husband and my daughter as we are all UK passport holders and future recipients of UK pensions. Why should we not be able to vote in UK elections?
The reality is that even if I can keep the right (I've been here 10 years in a few months) they make it impossible as the voting papers NEVER reach us in time. So for me there are 2 issues. Allowing us to retain the right to vote is pointless if they don't make it physically possible to vote. So both issues have to be addressed.
It is ludicrous that we will shortly be in the position where we are unable to vote in ANY national elections. 
I can see an argument to say that only tax payers should be allowed to vote in that country's elections but where do you draw the line? What about pensioners who may pay tax in their birth nation but not their host nation. What about people in receipt of benefits or students as they are not tax payers. How about ex-services personnel? They have defended their country but have no right to vote there if they live abroad? I can't see how it would work or be fair.
Hats off to Charlotte and Harry for successfully raising the issue. We'll have to see what happens next.
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:28 pm

Admin wrote:So, if I don't currently pay taxes in the UK, I have in the past and therefore who is elected and which laws they pass directly affect me, my husband and my daughter as we are all UK passport holders and future recipients of UK pensions. Why should we not be able to vote in UK elections?The reality is that even if I can keep the right (I've been here 10 years in a few months) they make it impossible as the voting papers NEVER reach us in time. So for me there are 2 issues. Allowing us to retain the right to vote is pointless if they don't make it physically possible to vote. So both issues have to be addressed.It is ludicrous that we will shortly be in the position where we are unable to vote in ANY national elections. I can see an argument to say that only tax payers should be allowed to vote in that country's elections but where do you draw the line? What about pensioners who may pay tax in their birth nation but not their host nation. What about people in receipt of benefits or students as they are not tax payers. How about ex-services personnel? They have defended their country but have no right to vote there if they live abroad? I can't see how it would work or be fair.Hats off to Charlotte and Harry for successfully raising the issue. We'll have to see what happens next.

Admin, don't get me wrong here, I'm actually of the belief that there is no reason for the UK changing to stop citizens living abroad from voting. Personally, if they take your vote, you can have mine!

It goes without saying a citizen who has fought for his country should (as I've already said) ALWAYS be able to fully partake in voting. Currently paying taxes (just for the intelligent people here who can't see the obvious - UK passport holders) is in my opinion an additional factor.... I don't know the reason the UK are looking at this, but would suspect it has more to do with numbers of ex-empire UK passport holders than those born in the UK, but now living elsewhere like Harry...  However as someone who no longer votes I have to hold up my hands and say,we live in a democratic country (of sorts)  and I(we) have to accept (albeit only if we are allowed to vote) whatever the plebs do...  alien

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Casa Monal on Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:31 pm

Well done Charlotte, we need more people like you  cheers 
 
Good luck and please keep us informed.
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Casa Monal on Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:42 pm

I don’t think it helps that Nick Clegg is half Dutch!  I think he spends too much time here… Exclamation 
 
If a Dutch national hasn’t lived in the Netherlands or an EU country for 10 years and they want to renew their passport, they are first interviewed even though it’s their birthright. The Dutch too are considering the whole voting issues for ex-pats  Neutral 
 

@Admin – I hope you can claim a state pension. For every year a Dutch person lives out of the Netherlands the state pension is reduced by 2% per year…something the UK government is also considering. Arrow  Arrow
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:59 pm

On the other hand, Nick Clegg's wife is a Spaniard and Spain recognizes voting rights to all of its citizens, whether they live in Spain or overseas,  without any time limit or restriction. And I think that Clegg spends more time in Spain that in the Netherlands...  Cool
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:32 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:On the other hand, Nick Clegg's wife is a Spaniard and Spain recognizes voting rights to all of its citizens, whether they live in Spain or overseas,  without any time limit or restriction. And I think that Clegg spends more time in Spain that in the Netherlands...  Cool

You been on the Spanish vino Gala? Apart from which, look at what a mess Spain is....

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:30 am

Gosh, Steve, you are becoming obnoxious! Why do you pick on me all the time? And to answer your nonsense, I would advise you to stop reading your "average" British tabloids and start getting information from more selected sources. Spain is doing very well, actually, we could even teach a lesson or two to the rest of the EU Spanish Recovery
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Vicino on Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:02 am

Calm down calm down !!    bom  Steve is just being humorous !?

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:51 am

That's what I would call a weird sense of humour... if it's just that.
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Casa Monal on Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:On the other hand, Nick Clegg's wife is a Spaniard and Spain recognizes voting rights to all of its citizens, whether they live in Spain or overseas,  without any time limit or restriction. And I think that Clegg spends more time in Spain that in the Netherlands...  Cool



It was a tongue-in-cheek remark Smile I have no idea if he spends time here or in Spain. I hope Nick Clegg spends most of his time in the UK doing what he is supposed to do Smile
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:15 pm

Well, I know that he comes to visit his in-laws during the summer holidaysnwith his wife and kids. He loves his mother-in-law home cooking.
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Vicino on Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:09 am

Is it not the case that he will HAVE to love his mother-in-law's home cooking, otherwise he may suffer from a little ear-ache!?  Laughing  Laughing 

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:11 am

Well, he certainly loves Spanish food...Who ate all the paella?  Very Happy
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Admin on Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:55 pm

Looks like it might change
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:07 pm

Glad to see that. And I am particularly happy for Mr Shindler.Very Happy
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Flip on Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:29 pm

are you on his List Gala?? Razz
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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:37 pm

Is there an election in 2015... Well I never! Still, I know this has been discussed a great deal, but if you have fought for your country, hold a UK passport, and/or pay UK tax... Another words why bother having such a rule... I am very happy for Mr Harry Shindler if this come to being as well Smile

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Re: Votes for British expats

Post by Gala Placidia on Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:10 pm

Flip wrote:are you on his List Gala?? Razz

Not to my knowledge....Razz
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