Kercher Verdict

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Kercher Verdict

Post by Geotherm on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

This has just come through!
http://www.thelocal.it/20140130/knox-and-sollecito-face-kercher-murder-verdict

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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Carciofo on Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:22 pm

The tabloids maybe but I don't think the broadsheets are quite so shoddy. Nevertheless, the point about the lack of evidence remains. I have no particular feeling for Knox. I'm prepared to accept her guilt if it's proved. I just haven't seen anything that counts as hard evidence. And I don't believe you can stab someone to death and not leave evidence. Guede had Meredith's blood all over him, Knox, none. Without evidence it's just a witch hunt.

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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by TAB_Flags on Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:25 pm

I bet you USA won't allow Italian authorities to obtain Knox anyway through extradition.

I know it's normal to prey on America and dislike them but they are hypocritical. They go around hell bent on 'democracy', 'legality' and all these good deeds. However, when someone else wants another criminal to their country they say "Their legal system is feudal and outdated".

America, you are just a child compares to Italy. Italy has had more cases in their legal system than you have, they know how it works. They created the very language you speak.

So, my point is, if they do say no to Italy extradition, USA are just as good as bombs are good for destruction.


Last edited by TAB_Flags on Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar)

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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Vicino on Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:24 pm

oohh!!

I do like this........... the LAW OF THE LAND is the LAW OF THE LAND !!

I was not a lawyer on the case, I was not in court to hear all of the evidence...............therefore, for me..............

The LAW OF THE LAND wins !!!  Very Happy 

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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by bluesky1 on Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:50 pm

I think that international politics may have tried influencing the outcome of this case.

But noone can say anything for sure.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:13 pm

Yes politicians don't seem to need much excuse to cover up murder or even bring it about... Nice to see you back Lax! Perhaps you could give us your guess on the guilty party(s)?

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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Gala Placidia on Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:44 pm

Lax, you seem convinced of the fact that you know the whole truth and nothing but the truth regarding this case... and sorry, in my opinion, you are wrong. I have read quite a bit on the case, including court documents, both in English and Italian. I come from a family of international lawyers (including my own late father) and I even did law studies when I first attended Uni (studies which I discontinued after opting for philology). I also have a long experience as a court interpreter and translator... so, as everyone will see, I have a better than average understanding of legal matters.  I will not try to convince you, but don't try to put down my opinion, which is also shared by many people.
For all those wanting to know more about this "injustice", I strongly recommend this site, as it contains transcripts, both in Italian and English of all relevant documents. Yes, it takes the side of both Knox and Sollecito, but after reading all the evidence, I would think that many will believe that they are innocent. Read this Injustice in Perugia and make up your mind. But have a well informed opinion.

As for all the talk regarding a possible extradition, may I remind you that it has not been requested as there is still appeals to higher courts which will have to take their course. To discuss this possibility and its outcome is still an exercise in uninformed futility.
I rest my case  Rolling Eyes
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by TAB_Flags on Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:Lax, you seem convinced of the fact that you know the whole truth and nothing but the truth regarding this case... and sorry, in my opinion, you are wrong. I have read quite a bit on the case, including court documents, both in English and Italian. I come from a family of international lawyers (including my own late father) and I even did law studies when I first attended Uni (studies which I discontinued after opting for philology). I also have a long experience as a court interpreter and translator... so, as everyone will see, I have a better than average understanding of legal matters.  I will not try to convince you, but don't try to put down my opinion, which is also shared by many people.For all those wanting to know more about this "injustice", I strongly recommend this site, as it contains transcripts, both in Italian and English of all relevant documents. Yes, it takes the side of both Knox and Sollecito, but after reading all the evidence, I would think that many will believe that they are innocent. Read this  and make up your mind. But have a well informed opinion.As for all the talk regarding a possible extradition, may I remind you that it has not been requested as there is still appeals to higher courts which will have to take their course. To discuss this possibility and its outcome is still an exercise in uninformed futility.I rest my case  Rolling Eyes






But it's likely too happen, as it happened once before.

And you can "entertain" the idea of it, as USA always entertains ideas before they have been properly gone through their law system. (Iraq)

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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Torrione on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:46 am

From the Guardian letters:

There are at least three points which are certain:


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/04/case-against-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:55 am

Sorry, but the three points that the newspaper makes are related to technicalities, procedural inconsistencies and details that do not add anything to the real reason for this case. It does not bring up reliable evidence against Sollecito or Knox that could prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that they really killed Amanda Kercher. And what about Guede? Are they going to release him?
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Admin on Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:45 am

I think the letter was more aimed at pointing out the Guardian's one-sided coverage of the events.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:12 pm

I guess that it would be impossible not to get divided opinions. I also see that , in most cases, sympathies and antipathies run along nationality groups. I feel very sorry for Sollecito, as he seems to be forgotten although he is included in the verdicts. As he recently said: "I have been condemned for being Knox's boyfriend". And, certainly, I feel extremely sorry for the Kercher family. The suffering must be excruciating, and I feel that they are being manipulated. Everyone would like to see justice being made and whoever commited this awful crime should be locked up in jail and the key thrown away. Life sentence and hard labour. No paid holidays in a "resort". I do not believe in the death penalty. That lowers us to the same level of the criminal(s); however, I do believe that criminals should get harsh life sentences. I doubt very much that rehab and reinsertion would ever work. Perhaps a brain transplant...
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by The Original Relaxed on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:56 pm

How you can say that the points made in the Guardian letter (linked to by Torrione) concern procedural matters is completely beyond me.

To quote one paragraph 



"During the pre-trial, trial proper, and retrial, different judges and juries have, after close and prolonged examination of all the evidence, concluded there is enough evidence against the defendants to find them guilty of the murder charge against them."



It would have been more accurate to refer to the pre-trial as the sentencing hearing (Micheli - you can read it at www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com it is utterly horrible and the autopsy details make it glaringly obvious that Guede could not have acted alone); and to refer to the retrial as the appeal, but to keep it simple for non experts in the Italian criminal process I'll let them get way with it.


Oh, I forgot....
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:40 pm

Lax, if something characterizes this case is the lack of evidence. Read this: Lack of evidence and I chose this particular source because of its very detailed analysis; hovever, you will find numerous other sites stating the same. And may I remind you that the appeal tribunal found that there was no case and released the accused unconditionally.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:51 pm

Another interesting link: Amanda Knox trial
Look at what is said about the prosecutor... frightening!
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by The Original Relaxed on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:58 pm

The appeal to which you refer was ANULLED, found RIDICULOUS IN ITS REASONING by the Cassazione - the highest court in Italy. It is lavatory paper.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:21 pm

The Italian Court of Cassation only rules on procedural matters, not on the innocence or guilt of the accused. So what you said is not correct.  This is why there will be a new appeal trial. And I would recommend this reading: The Italian Prosecutor
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by The Original Relaxed on Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:59 pm

The fact that the Hellman appeal was found to have not considered the evidence properly is a procedural matter, I agree there. The process was flawed, and the demolition of their verdict by the Cassazione was total (unprecedentedly vehement).

There will NOT be another appeal. The cassazione will either ratify, or overturn, the standing appeal judgement (that they are guilty). If the cassazione ratifies the recent verdict that is it. Finished.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:05 pm

If that is the case, they will and should go to the Human Rights Tribuna. Sollecito has said today that he is staying in Italy and fighting the case. The prosecutor should be disqualified and the Cassazione shoul order a fresh trial with a review of the "evidence! by independent experts.The whole case is a shambles! Does not do any good for the reputation of the Italian justice system.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by The Original Relaxed on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:14 pm

Oh Jeez - there is no arguing with these people. Human effing rights - you said you followed the case. I simply do not believe you have any informed opinion whatsoever, despite your legal ancestry and a semester at law school before you decided to do philology. Basta.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:38 pm

Basta! Well said, I have already stated my beliefs and opinions. Let the others express theirs.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by The Original Relaxed on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:06 pm

Fine - I agree. We have rather overwhelmed this thread with our fundamental disagreements. So we''ll both shut up and let everybody else have their say.
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:23 pm

Guilty, well perhaps.... The link Lax provided was very informative, but I really can't be ar..d to find out more about the case. As I've said Knox looked guilty as hell the other day on tv, false and staged is to put in mildly. If (from a quick scan of the link) the evidence therein is correct, then I would think the above "verdict" is correct. However I qualify this as "perhaps" as I would have to wade through other links to see if there is such a well presented counter view... Not to be totally flippant about it I have to repeat I feel more than anything that a young girl has lost her life and the people left who cared about her - very, very sad.

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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by TAB_Flags on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:39 pm

stevegwmonkseaton wrote:Guilty, well perhaps.... The link Lax provided was very informative, but I really can't be ar..d to find out more about the case. As I've said Knox looked guilty as hell the other day on tv, false and staged is to put in mildly. If (from a quick scan of the link) the evidence therein is correct, then I would think the above "verdict" is correct. However I qualify this as "perhaps" as I would have to wade through other links to see if there is such a well presented counter view... Not to be totally flippant about it I have to repeat I feel more than anything that a young girl has lost her life and the people left who cared about her - very, very sad.



She should be an actress, she does well at fake crying.

But serious note: If she is actually innocent and just trying to cover up the real person who did it. Hasn't the courts just really royally messed up her life now? What does she do now? She probably doesn't have a job, everyone hates her in the street, and she has no support from US I doubt.

But I am always cynical. I think she accidently killed Kercher during a game that went wrong or/ they were both with that Italian man and the other found out...

It's like what the sister and brother said of the deceased. "we might not EVER know the truth of what really happened"...

I also do not get why on earth they let her out and then suddenly now decide she's guility again...all courts are slow, UK is the worse though. We had this same trial for 23 years before they were sentanced, then a year later the guy died. That's justice for you.

Oh and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2556472/Meredith-Kercher-killer-freed-prison-study-serving-just-six-years-sentence.html

He is allowed out and study his degree! well done, well done.

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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by The Original Relaxed on Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:45 pm

You should be aware that the story about Guede being on 'day release' from prison has been categorically denied by his lawyers.

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/cronaca/2014/02/11/Meredith-Rudy-semiliberta-studiare_10052998.html
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Re: Kercher Verdict

Post by ghiro on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:38 am

'Is Amanda Knox Guilty'? at 9:00pm tonight on BBC 3 may, or may not, shed new light on the case!
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Re: Kercher Verdict

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