Cars

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Cars

Post by Angela Fuller on Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:57 am

I have an Italian 19 yr old car on Italian plates.  I pay my bollo and revisioni (not sure about spelling) and obv insurance.  Why is it so many people I know from the UK SORN their cars and pay neither the equivalent of MOT or Tax.....?  These are people who can more than afford to but have been told by the expats here not to bother and swan around in their cars for years.... Friends with uk plates who do take their car back for MOT and tax every year were recently stopped and asked for MOT certificate....maybe the Italians are getting wise to it after all !
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Re: Cars

Post by Flip on Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:40 am

The short answer why people do this is ''money''. We all know that insurance in Italy is exorbitant compared with insuring a UK reg car at home, and as long as your cover extends to unlimited EU use a big saving is to be made each year. Regarding Road Fund License, you are not required to have 'Tax Disc' if you do not use UK roads, and also the MOT is a UK based scheme, which can be got around if you take your UK reg car to a Garage and get a Rivisione done one it every 2 years.
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Re: Cars

Post by modicasa on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:04 am

The DVLC and PRA have been connected since last October.  Now all information is shared by the two offices - so the chances of being able to continue much longer with these 'shortcuts' are remote.

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cars

Post by sebastiano on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:55 am

yes,Angela,you're right.Like many things it's now changing fast.
it's even been on national tv the fact that many foreigners are driving around in the foreign registered cars for years.
it's not only brits also rumanians,poles and even some germans.
Anyway as the new "policy" is leave no stone unturned in the search for money they have already started clamping down on this and anyone found as a long term resident (ie. not a tourist or just arrived) are risking quite a lot now and a "non parlo italiano" to the police will not last much longer.
that is not to mention the potential risk of non mot'd vehicles and eventual insurance issues especially in the case of accidents and licence points...basically a foreign car after a few months should be re registered as italian,insured here,pay the property tax (ex road tax) whilst the licence conversion also obbligatory is in fact very simple,better if done thru a driving school ..after a few weeks a coloured strip arrives to put on the back of your uk licence and it's done.you will now be a fully qualified long suffering italian driver.At this point it's better to use a LHD car...
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Re: Cars

Post by lancashire lass on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:47 pm

I know people who leave cars with uk number plates in Italy long term, they have been " sorn" from the the uk so the car is not registered anywhere and they (the people) are not from the uk! I don't know how that works at all? I do realise that if you are not resident this is the only way to get round the rules.

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Re: Cars

Post by Admin on Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:16 pm

Having declared a SORN does not mean the car is not registered in the UK, it just means the car is registered as being off UK roads. They still have to get an MOT, they just don't have to pay road tax in the UK.
As Sebastiano said the risk is what happens if you have an accident and the car has no MOT or Revisione...
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Re: Cars

Post by lancashire lass on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:48 pm

Actually i may be wrong, the cars may not have been declared sorn they may have been exported ie no longer registered in the uk.

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Re: Cars

Post by Geotherm on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:33 pm

If exported from the UK, then as this articles say, if you are out for 6 months, then it needs to be re-registered in the country of residence.
We exported our Citroen from the UK, and conformed to the to then regulations, 6 months to change, just as my wife did, when she moved to the UK from Germany, back in the late 80's with a German registered vehicle.
Play the game, cry when you get hit with a big fine ...... no sympathy......

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/registration/taxes/index_en.htm

Correction for Italy = 1 year

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/registration/taxes/italy/index_en.htm


Last edited by Geotherm on Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : time for re-registering a vehicle)

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Re: Cars

Post by Angela Fuller on Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:26 am

I doubt whether you could get a legal revisioni done on an English plated card as it requires a sticker to be placed in your cars log book and the test to be recorded at the local office of the Italian version of the DVLA....I may be wrong....I also doubt that the local ACI office would be able to register an English plated car so that you could pay the road tax - bollo.  After all if you are using the roads, surely you should be paying the road tax ?
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Re: Cars

Post by Hazy on Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:31 am

Re the UK driving licence conversion - the little pink strip with your Italian address to stick on your UK licence is fine for 5 years but once you have been a resident in Italy for more than this 5 years legally you should change your licence for an Italian one. I'm in the process of getting this done as I see no point in flouting the law here and having the hassle of fines etc.

I agree with Angie - I don't think you would ever get a revision done on a UK plated car.

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Re: Cars

Post by Gala Placidia on Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:06 am

I totally agree in that laws are there to be obbeyed and people who permanently reside in Italy must have their cars registered locally. Also, revisions can only be performed in the country where the car is registered. I don't think that any of this can be argued.
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Re: Cars

Post by Flip on Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:38 am

The purpose of the Rivisione, is only to show that the car is ''Roadworthy'' at the time of the test, which is the legal requirement in most Countries (also for the purposes of the Car Insurance) after the car reaches 3 or 4 years of age. The receipt you get from the Garage will say a Revisione was carried out on that date, which shows that it is ''Roadworthy'' which is what the law states.
It is not designed to circumvent the requirements of Registration only to satisfy the Police that car is not a death trap.
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Re: Cars

Post by modicasa on Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:56 am

No Hazy, you're a bit out of date.  A European driving licence is now valid until its expiry - only then do you have to convert to an Italian licence.

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Re: Cars

Post by Angela Fuller on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:14 am

As you say Flip the revisione states the car is roadworthy at the time of its test.  However it must be done by a registered mechanic and the result registered so that an official certificate can be issued. For this to be done surely the car has to be registered here ?
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Re: Cars

Post by Hazy on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:55 am

My fault for not making it clear it is for residents 50 years and older. The information I have is from www.gov.uk/living-in-italy and was updated in May 2014 so perhaps is not out of date:-

'As Italian licence regulations apply to anyone obtaining residence in Italy, for residents under 50 years of age who hold a driving licence from another EU/EEA country, their licence will expire 10 years after residency is obtained, regardless of the validity period of the EU/EEA licence they hold. For those between 50 and 70 years of age, their EU/EEA licence will expire 5 years after the first day residency is obtained. At this time, the foreign licence must be surrendered and exchanged for an Italian licence.'

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Re: Cars

Post by Angela Fuller on Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:01 pm

Well said Hazy......There is too much mis-information floating around.... and I am sure your posting will cause many to be afraid !
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Re: Cars

Post by Admin on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:21 pm

Actually Hazy makes a good point. Italian licences have different expiry dates to UK ones (ours don't expire until you become pretty old - 80 I think). You have to respect the Italian expiry dates too.
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Re: Cars

Post by lancashire lass on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:47 pm

I think the grey area is that people who own a holiday home can't obtain an italian registered car because they are not resident but still want a car to drive around in when they are visiting Italy. So they bring a uk registered car to Italy and leave it there, most will have done a sorn and don't pay uk road tax, but somehow they get car insurance in the uk, they don't take the car home to get an mot so is it legal?? Then there are other people who export a car from the uk and do the above, they are not resident in Italy or the UK and the car is not registered anywhere? It all sounds very wrong to me but it happens!
I would just like to clarify our own situation, we drive to Italy in May and leave the car there when we return but we drive it back to the UK in October. We have looked at all the legal possibilities of having an Italian car but as we are not resident we are unable to do so.

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Re: Cars

Post by modicasa on Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:31 pm

Whereas the European guidelines on European licences - which all have expiry dates, says they are valid until their expiry and do not need conversion.   Unlimited (old) licences must be converted according to the rules of the country of residence.

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Re: Cars

Post by Angela Fuller on Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:56 am

I have heard it is possible as a non-resident in Italy to buy a car.....has anyone else heard this ?
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Re: Cars

Post by modicasa on Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:24 am

No it isnt possible.  I have tried numerous times for clients, and only last week went through it all again with the PRA, ACI and motorizzazzione.   To buy a  car either new or old in Italy you must be registered at the anagrafe.

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Re: Cars

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:53 pm

Yes, Modi is right. I have a couple of vriends who had to register at the  anagrafe in order to purchase a car. No other way around it.
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Re: Cars

Post by lancashire lass on Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:57 pm

As Italians living abroad we are registered at the anagrafe, does this mean we can buy a car??

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Re: Cars

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:06 pm

I guess that you mean the anagrafe at BdL and that would mean that you could buy the car. I would further advise you to check on possible implications taxation wise. In any case, keep records regarding your stay in Italy in case you need to prove that you were there for less than 6 months of the year. I know, it is complicated...
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Re: Cars

Post by chrisnotton on Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:52 pm

Angela Fuller wrote:I have an Italian 19 yr old car on Italian plates.  I pay my bollo and revisioni (not sure about spelling) and obv insurance.  Why is it so many people I know from the UK SORN their cars and pay neither the equivalent of MOT or Tax.....?  These are people who can more than afford to but have been told by the expats here not to bother and swan around in their cars for years.... Friends with uk plates who do take their car back for MOT and tax every year were recently stopped and asked for MOT certificate....maybe the Italians are getting wise to it after all !
This topic is quite frequently discussed;  Wink 
https://www.italymagazine.com/community/post/registering-uk-car-italy#comment-21013

This is from a very experienced travellers site:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/sorn-mot-registration-long-term-39472

Here we go again!


As in many previous threads - UK Road Tax is only payable for UK registered vehicles when using public roads in UK. ie within the jurisdiction of UK Road Traffic Acts etc. If not on UK public roads not payable.


You can even apply for a part refund as you leave. If a UK vehicle registered vehicle is not to be taxed (or a refund is requested because it is not going to be used on UK public roads) a SORN declaration must be made (free) that it is not going to be used on UK public roads. This must be done again annually. It can be done 'on-line' (ie from anywhere in the World) during the month before and after the Road Tax or SORN expires. MOT is similarly only necessary if the vehicle is going to be used within the jurisdiction of the UK Road Traffic Acts (ie UK public roads).


On returning to UK it is permitted to use the vehicle without MOT and Road Tax to get to and from a MOT Test Station for a pre-arranged test appointment. The station can be anywhere in the land, not near the point of entry or your home - if stopped you be able to show you are reasonably en-route and give details of the appointment time/date/place so they can check up. So, book the test as you disembark, or while you are still away.
Insurance is a necessity throughout the EU and most of the rest of the World, so it is assumed you will have that anyway. 


Never NEVER NEVER ask the DVLA. The only people you get to speak to generally know nothing! 

I for one have no intention of re-registering my British vehicle, but I will be driving back & forth to a UK address 4 or 5 times a year anyway. I don't envisage any problem as long as I am insured (Saga), but we will see. I will probably take the opportunity to obtain an MOT in the UK, whenever convenient.


In bocco al lupo

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Re: Cars

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