Regulations for Pellet Stoves

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Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Flip on Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:23 pm

I've recently been talking to our neighbour who has had a Pellet Stove installed (giving heat and hot water) and the guy who installed it says it must be registered with the Comune and someone will come out to inspect it. He also said that all Pellet Stoves will have to be registered at some stage with the Comune and have regular inspections.
Does anyone know about this and it's implications, I understand that different Provinces have different requirements.
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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Geotherm on Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:42 pm

It is probably going to be the same as for gas heating systems, with a annual inspection and the certification that has been installed by a qualified technician. Gas ones have to be registered with the commune as far as I am aware.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Flip on Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:57 pm

Yeh but Geo, I can understand Certificating Gas appliances, no brainer, but pellet stoves !! Unless it vents into the room, I can't honestly see the point and where does it end, Wood Burners next?
Seems to me it may well be a 'Jobs for the Boys' scenario, and make a little cash on the side.
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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Geotherm on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:02 pm

I tried to find a EU regulation on it, but no joy. I think it may be down to the fact that the pellet stove is more mechanical than a normal wood burning stove, so therefore there is more risk of fire, plus air flow has to be more controlled for efficient combustion etc.
Not my field of knowledge, but have read some horror stories of the noise and poor efficiency of them.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by The Original Relaxed on Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:01 pm

The comune asking for certification of a pellet stove is not out of line.

I did research this (for another questioner on another forum) and replied comprehensively, but because - like Geotherm - my opinion on pellet stoves is not favourable, I have utterly forgottten what I told them! However, it isn't a big deal, the comune simply have the right to ask to be informed about a pellet stove (probably over a certain KW potential output) having been installed.
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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Flip on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:16 am

Ta guys. Will do a bit of digging at the Comune.
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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Gala Placidia on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:23 am

I read somewhere (can't find the source) that Italy was trying to catch up with some EU regulations regarding installations and inspections. I could also have to do with Fire Brigade instructions. In any case, the Comune should have an explanation.
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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by ourtoscana on Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:48 am

I've installed dozens of these pellet stoves and never had such a requirement. Mind you, in Italy you need to check the laws every Monday morning and take nothing for granted!

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Idraulico on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:10 pm

All installations of heat generation plant are notifiable, normally through the Dichiarazione Di Conformita and a copy of your installers qualification / certification document from the Camera Di Commercio.

Some installation only have to be reported to the commune planning / Engineers office, some installations / Mainenance etc have to also be reported to the Camera Di Commercio.

The latest raft of legislation changes include the implementation of the FGAS qualification. We who where registered for refrigeration and airconditioning installation and maintenance were all removed from the register and had to re apply for a temporary permission to install till the qualification was taken or proof that you had already got it.

The next thing will be a separate register / qualification for gas boiler maintenance which is now being planned.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by ourtoscana on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:18 pm

Thanks Idraulico. The compliance certification for the plant is part of the administrative documentation that goes to make up the habitability certification so it means they've ticked the box so to speak. This is a little bit different to somebody from the Comune coming out to inspect it or to be registered with the Comune as mentioned above.

In fact, in my experience, it is the Provinica not the Comune that oversees inspections based on the size of the plant and this procedure varies significantly from Provinica to Provincia.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Geotherm on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:24 pm

Idraulico wrote:All installations of heat generation plant are notifiable, normally through the Dichiarazione Di Conformita and a copy of your installers qualification / certification document from the Camera Di Commercio.Some installation only have to be reported to the commune planning / Engineers office, some installations / Mainenance etc have to also be reported to the Camera Di Commercio.The latest raft of legislation changes include the implementation of the FGAS qualification. We who where registered for refrigeration and airconditioning installation and maintenance were all removed from the register and had to re apply for a temporary permission to install till the qualification was taken or proof that you had already got it.

The next thing will be a separate register / qualification for gas boiler maintenance which is now being planned.

Rgds.

 Heat pumps, are normally excluded, as they need no certification, as nothing is combustible. As far as I understand from peoplehere, they had to have certification recorded each year for gas units, but may be different in other areas.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by ourtoscana on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:44 pm

I think we're mixing up compliance certification for planning purposes with safety related matters. In essence, we tell the local authorities that everything is installed in compliance with the heat dispersion limits and codes who then notify the Provincia for gas fired boilers that can carry spot checks to ensure that the appliance is serviced & working correctly over the subsequent years.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Idraulico on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:57 pm

No problem ourtoscana, I hope this forum can stay on track and allow those with genuine experience can help out others that may need advice. 

The comune has the right to inspect works that have been carried out, but rarely do.

On the gas side of things, the province will have an appointed company that logs annual maintenance etc and compiles the all important CO2 emmission data and can inspect.  As far as compulsory inspection is concerned the magic figure is 35 Kw or above, then the vigili di fuoco get involved and extra protection within circuits etc is required.

Province to province do have very minor additions to security, but its what should be done anyway.

EXCEPT LOMBARDIA, who are well on the green band wagon and is leading the rest of Italy I think, they insist on recorded NOX emission reports as part of the flue gas analysis plus many other extra requirements across the vast field that is Plumbing Heating and Aircon.

Their are some good Trade mags and websites that send out weekly bulletins regarding changes etc.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by ourtoscana on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:11 pm

Thanks for that clarification Idraulico.

The appointed company from the Provincia that you mentioned created a total uproar last December in my Province when they sent out letters to all households with gas fired boilers stating that the owners did not carry out the mandatory inspections with the local authorized maintenance company. Personally I had to send a number of recorded letters to deal with the matter as they were simply trying it on! It was all over the newspapers the following week and currently the directors of the company are under investigation!!

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Idraulico on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:12 pm

Hi Geotherm, I was typing the last response before I had read your post.

The entire heating system should be registered, but we are in a grey area with the new Italian version of FGAS.

All installations containing less than 3Kg of refrigerant will have to have a Libretto di Impianto, a log book just as a gas boiler installation, to record the installation and any repairs or maintenance.

Installations with 3Kg or more of refrigerant will require an annual maintenance contract with a certified company, to carry out a leak test annually.

As you are not breaking into or fabricating a refrigerant circuit, with the information available to me at the moment, I would say not notifiable unless it contains 3 Kg or more of refrigerant.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Idraulico on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:22 pm

ourtoscana wrote:Thanks for that clarification Idraulico.The appointed company from the Provincia that you mentioned created a total uproar last December in my Province when they sent out letters to all households with gas fired boilers stating that the owners did not carry out the mandatory inspections with the local authorized maintenance company. Personally I had to send a number of recorded letters to deal with the matter as they were simply trying it on! It was all over the newspapers the following week and currently the directors of the company are under investigation!!

 Doesn't that just sound like the Italy we have all come to love:lol: .The main problem is that the customer usually does not know it down to them to send the allegato G and the bolletino postale TAX to the elected company annually.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Gala Placidia on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:30 pm

This is the type of thread that should become a "sticky" for future reference. Excellent information!
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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Geotherm on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:31 pm

Idraulico wrote:Hi Geotherm, I was typing the last response before I had read your post.The entire heating system should be registered, but we are in a grey area with the new Italian version of FGAS.All installations containing less than 3Kg of refrigerant will have to have a Libretto di Impianto, a log book just as a gas boiler installation, to record the installation and any repairs or maintenance.

Installations with 3Kg or more of refrigerant will require an annual maintenance contract with a certified company, to carry out a leak test annually.

As you are not breaking into or fabricating a refrigerant circuit, with the information available to me at the moment, I would say not notifiable unless it contains 3 Kg or more of refrigerant.

Rgds.

 Wonder how they will get round home refrigerators/freezers then, as they would need the same log book!! After all, a heat pump is basically only a fridge working in reverse.

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Re: Regulations for Pellet Stoves

Post by Idraulico on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:44 pm

Sorry Geotherm, I was not clear, small domestic appliances are exempt as they are hermetically sealed and are well under the 3kg refrigerant limit, split aircon units are not hermetically sealed as a refrigerant circuit will need to be fabricated.

As I mentioned previously, ASHP and GSHP are normally sealled and charged at the factory so no fridge work required hence no notification unless it has 3Kg or more of refrigerant.

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