Wills

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Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:10 am

Does anyone know of the wording of the addition to an English Will to ensure that the whole of your Italian estate can be left to your spouse rather than forcibly shared among your children ?  Thanks for any info......
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Re: Wills

Post by Gala Placidia on Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:54 am

An addition to an existing will is called a "codicil". Sometimes it is necessary to make a new will. This area is a minefield and I think that proper legal advice is needed. I found this link which may give you a rough idea Amendments to will
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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:09 am

Thanks Gala,

My situation is as such.  My OH has 5 children and I have none.....I am worried as there is a 20yr age gap between us as if anything was to happen to him his half of the house etc would be shared between his children if I was to sell.  The house is in joint names....but the mortgage is in my name, OH is happy for me to be named the sole owner of the house....But what do I need to do ?  A new 'will' both in English and translated into Italian, as you say a minefield especially when you don't have a legal brain...or alot of funds......and yes, we have been married for 30yrs......
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Re: Wills

Post by Gala Placidia on Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:20 am

Yes, it is complicated matter, Angie. Perhaps, it may be easier for him to "gift" his share of the house to you, keeping the usufruct. You have to talk to a lawyer, preferably one who is conversant with both Italian and UK law and also have a look at the taxation side. You mentioned that you were considering downsizing. Perhaps, that would be the time to fix this problem . But get proper advice. Good luck!
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Re: Wills

Post by Gala Placidia on Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:22 am

Yes, it is complicated matter, Angie. Perhaps, it may be easier for him to "gift" his share of the house to you, keeping the usufruct. You have to talk to a lawyer, preferably one who is conversant with both Italian and UK law and also have a look at the taxation side. You mentioned that you were considering downsizing. Perhaps, that would be the time to fix this problem . But get proper advice. Good luck!
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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:47 am

Thanks again Gala....I had not thought of the 'gifting' thing.  I have also found an old thread on the forum with more info from Charlotte Oliver...very useful as always. Basically says you need to have the following written into your 'will'...'I intend that English law should apply tothe succession to all my assets where ever situated', and I assume the 'will' needs to be translated into Italian.....
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Re: Wills

Post by Gala Placidia on Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:56 am

Yes, I think that it should be translated; however, I am worried about the possibility of the will being contested if other beneficiaries are unhappy. This happens all the time. I think that you will be in a much safer position with a new title deed where you own the property and your husband has the usufruct of his share. Ask Charlotte Oliver. She would be the right person to give advice. In any case, I do not think that you could modify the current title until you repay the mortgage. Or perhaps the best way would be to sell that property and downsize as you were considering. Ask Charlotte.
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Re: Wills

Post by Vicino on Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:19 am

HIGHLY recommend speak/hire Charlotte on this one, she has been invaluable and very keen to input into this area over the years !

I'd be interested to see/hear how you get on as you have a very similar situation to ourselves !

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Re: Wills

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:12 am

There is some general information on wills in this LINK here

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Re: Wills

Post by modicasa on Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:52 am

Its not that difficult.  Make an English will, (assuming you are English), leaving your stuff to the local cats home - then ake sure that in Italy your holographic will states that you want anything you own to be dealt with under the law of your nationality - and hey presto thats that.  A simple holographic will in Italian must be handwritten, but its two lines.    With the new laws in 2015, you may have to make sure that your Uk will is an 'international will' - as it seems that UK has opted out of the new EU legislation, but Charlotte will know better than anyone.  Don't make a trust, dont make a donation unless you are planning on a) living for at least another 10 years and b) have lots of money - under Italian law they are expensive and opponibile.

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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:12 pm

Modicasa, me and OH have an English 'will' and have written a holographic one...Do we still need the 'English' 'will' translated into Italian ?and is it ok /legal to add the 'I intend that English law should apply to the succession to all my assets wherever situated' myself or does the 'will have to be re-written or just a codicil addedand witnessed ?  Thanks for any advice....
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Re: Wills

Post by modicasa on Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:30 am

HI - Your english will will have to be translated at some point to be able to do the succession in Italy, so if you want to do it now, why not.  Doing this stuff for my clients, the problems always seems to be the executor which is a bit of a strange role for the Italians - and that requires more rigmarole.

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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:15 am

Talking translation of wills......approximately, what is the going rate ?  I have been given a quote to copy existing will into Italian and adding the 'I intend that English law etc etc' the quote, I think is a little on the pricey side....and, is it ok to write a codicil by hand yourself or do you have to have it done by a legal beagle ?
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Re: Wills

Post by modicasa on Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:25 am

You will need at some point a traduzione giurata - this doesnt mean that it must be done by a certified translator, just the the person who translates it promises it is accurate adn true.  Obviously you cant do it yourself, but the person who does do it, just needs to toddle off to the local tribunale and armed with various marche di bollo fil in a form and swear in front of the JP.  That is enough for a notaio to proceed.
The rule is 15 lines a page - and your marca di bollo of 16 euros is one for every 4 pages.  You also need a bollo for 28 cents(ish)  and I think one for 3 euros something.  And endless copies of course plus ID and the completed form


Last edited by modicasa on Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:32 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Wills

Post by Gala Placidia on Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:26 am

This may help, Angie Translation rates
Make sure that the translator is properly qualified. A translation containing mistakes, even a sworn one, may be contested.
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Re: Wills

Post by Charlotte Oliver on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:33 pm

Angela i realise you are so concerned about this, but I want to reassure you. By the sound of it your husband already has made a will leaving everything to you, so that is the hardest part already done. As to the translation this can be arranged when you need it...

If you can send me a copy of the will to c.oliver@oliverpartners.it I will check this and write the text of the codicil stating that English law should apply. That way your husband will have done all he can to ensure his wishes are followed. And you should make sure the will is kept safe and know you could not have done any more.

On a more technical note, if a person dies after August 2015, the Regulation states that renvoi will not apply if a person resident in one country has made a choice of their nationality. This means that even though English law given the scission rule applies the law of the place property is situated, the English court should not in theory send the question back to Italian law, because Italy applies the Regulation.

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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:14 am

Thank you Charlotte, you have been most helpful. I will attempt to send you a copy of the will via e-mail over the weekend.  Many thanks again.
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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:36 am

Just incase anyone may be interested (and not being morbid but my circumstances are a little different to many).  My husband is several years older than me and so if anything was to happen to him there is a benefit payable to widows called Bereavment Allowance payable in the UK and EU countries by the UK govt.....Of course to be eligable you must fit some criteria but if you tick the boxes (which I do and will do for the next 10 years) it would mean weekly payments of up to £106 for one year.
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Re: Wills

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:00 am

Really good to have such information on here Angela, thanks. It's the old widows pension (do they change the names to hide the benefit...) , this is the LINK to the government web site on it.

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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:09 am

Apparently Steve 9 out of 10 people are unaware it exists, or so they say...
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Re: Wills

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:20 am

Well I'm not too sure about it these days, but in the past you could claim late, but they limit any arrears to 3 months. I note (and I've looked at their so called greater detail guide) they don't have details on late claims (they always used to). Really not good when you consider the nature of the benefit involved. Hopefully you have also looked at the one off £2000 lump sum they also pay if your circumstances fit the criteria.

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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:40 am

Going to look that one up Steve....When we bought our house with a 10 yr mortgage I was assuming I would get my state pension at 60...4 yrs time....now they say I have to wait til I am 66 (10 yrs time), it has kind of upset all our planning for the future.  Whilst I do agree women and men should be treated equally ha ha, I do feel,that telling someone in their 50's the new govt plan is just not acceptable....maybe 25 yrs notice would be better, then people can save and plan their future better.
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Re: Wills

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:28 am

Angela Fuller wrote:Going to look that one up Steve....When we bought our house with a 10 yr mortgage I was assuming I would get my state pension at 60...4 yrs time....now they say I have to wait til I am 66 (10 yrs time), it has kind of upset all our planning for the future.  Whilst I do agree women and men should be treated equally ha ha, I do feel,that telling someone in their 50's the new govt plan is just not acceptable....maybe 25 yrs notice would be better, then people can save and plan their future better.

I've always maintained this was a despicable act the way it was implemented and is very much against women of of a certain age. It should have been fazed in over a much longer period of time. They are are always telling you to plan for the future then rip the carpet from under your feet  - most unfair Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Wills

Post by Angela Fuller on Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:55 pm

I agree Steve, it should have been fazed in over a much longer time.  I took early retirement from the NHS believing I would receive my pension at the age of 60.  Now it is almost impossible to be re-employed by them as jobs do not exist,my age would be against me and it would mean a time re-training if offered a position due to the time I have spent 'out of post' not to mention the cost of accomadation and running a car...all in all a very shabby affair !
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Re: Wills

Post by ghiro on Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:55 pm

Angela Fuller wrote:...all in all a very shabby affair !


Agreed. Sad

On a similar theme Private Pensions used to benefit from having tax relief on the dividends paid.  In 1997 a certain Gordon Brown removed this benefit - not just for new plans but for existing ones as well.  As Steve says you plan for the future and they rip the carpet out from under your feet - most unfair.  Evil or Very Mad

As I remarked then buying a Private Pension was like buying a new car.  6 months later you look out of your window and see some men jacking the car up and removing a wheel.  You rush out.  'What do you think you're doing'?
'Sorry miss' they reply 'but we only sell cars with 3 wheels now'. Shocked
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Re: Wills

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