fish n' chips

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fish n' chips

Post by JulianaAlice on Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:41 pm

Yes loved this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11426124/Italy-lays-claim-to-inventing-fish-and-chips-and-bringing-it-to-the-UK.html
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:29 pm

.. they can have them back for me.... affraid

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by modicasa on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:31 am

The Neapolitans lay claim to chess and fireworks, icecream and tomatoes.  
Then of course theres the telephone, rigorously taught in Italian to be an Italian invention, but thought of as American becasue being Italian he was late getting to the patent office, so it doesnt count.

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Gala Placidia on Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:36 am

Allow me to clarify some historical facts:
The origin of "fish and chips" is a popular Spanish and Portuguese dish called "pescado frito" ( in Andalusia "pescaito frito" ) which was brought to the UK by the Jews who had been expelled from the Iberian peninsula during the 16th Century. It is very popular during the Lenten period.
The Neapolitan claim about tomatoes, is hilarious as they came from America and were brought to Spain by the "conquistadores" and from there they were exported to Italy, and we should remember that several Italian regions were under Spanish rule for quite a few centuries.... So their claim is an "indirect" one.
Some journalists should go back to school Rolling EyesRolling Eyes
By the way, fish and chips could have a common origin with the Japanese "tempura" which was introduced there by Spanish and Portuguese Jesuits and its name comes from the Latin 'Tempora" a religious observance time like Lenten. Meat was not allowed during that time.
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by modicasa on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:04 am

In my opinion deep frying a bit of fish in flour and then laying claim to a dish which is entirely different is taking a bit of a liberty!

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:26 am

Modi, history tells us that fried fish and seafood, and even chicken, was popular for many centuries amongst Mediterranean people. And this is understandable because they had the best element for frying: olive oil, which keeps very well even under high temperatures. But Northern Europeans mainly used other methods of cooking. It is generally accepted that the Sephardic Jews introduced deep fried fish when some of them moved to the UK after being expelled from Spain by the Catholic Kings in the early 16th Century. Fried fish was their traditional Sabbath dish. It looks as if the Telegraph journalists write about topics without doing the necessary research.
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Flip on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:12 am

Who cares who ''invented'' it, does it matter? All I know is it has great restorative powers after a night out and best eaten out of a copy of the Daily Mail, which is all it is good for.....
 I do take issue with Olive Oil being the best frying medium as Lard is better in my opinion as Olive oil has too low a smoke point.
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:19 am

Flip wrote:Who cares who ''invented'' it, does it matter? All I know is it has great restorative powers after a night out and best eaten out of a copy of the Daily Mail, which is all it is good for..... I do take issue with Olive Oil being the best frying medium as Lard is better in my opinion as Olive oil has too low a smoke point.

Yes of course it matters as I want them to have them back! Oh and don't get me started on ..... "historical fact" , beyond a year, or two thousand or s,o there is no such thing Exclamation Right now where is that post on Putin being a goody, goody... Razz

Back to real (well by subjective, historical view of it) Italy. There was a little piece on Italy on radio 4 (that's BBC, and yes I know Gala very English shoddy). The quote they give was that 44% of those under 25 are unemployed in Italy!!! Amazingly one of the solutions is/was to have pizza training courses for them... Surely "fish & chips" would be better training (just trying to get back on subject), would be much better when they arrive at Stansted.

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:50 pm

Flip, I do hope that you have given up on lard and become a fan of olive oil, which is much healthier for you. The smoke point is not the only consideration Fats and oils
Steve, I do hope that the pizza training courses will not go ahead, as there are too many pizza shops around the world. Italian unemployed youth would benefit from learning other skills.
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Panner on Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:51 pm

Speaking for an expert fish and chip fryer (my other half) who ran several fish and chip shops in the UK for many years it does make a difference if they are cooked in Olive Oil - it simply cannot get hot enough without burning (smoke point) to produce quality fish and chips.

However, for most frying where high heat is not necessary I always use Olive Oil but try to avoid it smoking - latest info is that when it burns it can produce carcinogenic compounds (as can others) see http://www.buzzfeed.com/christinebyrne/things-you-shouldnt-be-cooking-with-olive-oil#.vjyxxjerkR

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:22 pm

Sorry Panner, I do not doubt your other half's expertise in the field of British style fish and chips (which I also enjoy whenever I go to the UK); however, I must say that the only ones arguing negatively about the suitability of olive oil for frying are mainly British. Mediterranean people, whether from Continental Europe, but also the Middle East, Arabic and North African cultures have been frying and deep frying in olive oil for centuries and we are all delighted with the results. There are plenty of articles, many of them on the web, confirming how good olive oil is for frying and deep frying and the reasons why this is so... Too long to enumerate and the secret is not only in the smoke point. But I should let the experts explain http://www.internationaloliveoil.org/estaticos/view/85-frying-with-olive-oil
By the way, just this morning I fried some eggs in extra virgin olive oil for brunch. Simple and absolutely delicious. Very Happy
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:51 pm

Experts in olive oil only... I love olive oil and we use it for all our cooking. However we do not deep fry or stir fry these days, if we did it would not be olive oil. Just do a search for the smoke point of cooking oils, olive oil is at the bottom of the pile every time. The 210c on the olive oil council site looks to be 10c plus exaggerated.  The UK has no reason to be in favour of one oil or another, where as the Med countries have a vested interest and are bound to use the oil they have in abundance whenever they can. They also have a self interest in promoting their products and we all know both Italy and Spain need the income... The UK is trying to do their bit by buying more olive oil than ever, although it would be nice if they could have, commonly available in supermarkets, good quality olive oil you get in Italian supermarkets. Even our biggest IPER nearby sells excellent quality local oil at a ridiculously low price compared to the UK

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:18 pm

Steve, you may believe whatever and whoever you choose to believe; however, and although the international olive oil body    May have a vested interest, their statements are scientifically based and backed by many other articles widely available. I am sorry, but the UK does not fare very well in the longevity charts, while countries with the same health standards such as France, Italy and Spain, countries that systematically cook and fry with olive oil, are in much better positions on that list. 
I believe that it would benefit the British people to make a higher consumption of olive oil and quite possibly the UK would benefit them from lower prices for the product.

The article from Buzzfeed is signed by a certain Christine Byrne and I do not know which qualifications she hold to write on a scientific matter. In any case, here is another article from a reputable source which say basically the same that I have stated before http://authoritynutrition.com/is-olive-oil-good-for-cooking/
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:33 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:Steve, you may believe whatever and whoever you choose to believe; however, and although the international olive oil body    May have a vested interest, their statements are scientifically based and backed by many other articles widely available. I am sorry, but the UK does not fare very well in the longevity charts, while countries with the same health standards such as France, Italy and Spain, countries that systematically cook and fry with olive oil, are in much better positions on that list. I believe that it would benefit the British people to make a higher consumption of olive oil and quite possibly the UK would benefit them from lower prices for the product.The article from Buzzfeed is signed by a certain Christine Byrne and I do not know which qualifications she hold to write on a scientific matter. In any case, here is another article from a reputable source which say basically the same that I have stated before http://authoritynutrition.com/is-olive-oil-good-for-cooking/

Keep eating the fish and chips Gala.... Very Happy

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:27 pm

I must confess that the best "fish and chips" I have ever eaten was at Riomaggiore on the Cinque Terre. They called it "pesce della barca" and it was freshly caught fish, deep fried in olive oil, of course and thinly sliced fried chips. All this accompanied by the delicious local white wine and followed by a pleasant walk along the Via dell' Amore... Unforgettable! Very Happy
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by ghiro on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:33 pm

I now only use Extra Virgin Rapeseed oil for frying, roast potatoes etc
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Gala Placidia on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:05 pm

Canola or rapeseed oil does not get a good review here http://authoritynutrition.com/canola-oil-good-or-bad/
I must confess that I am an absolute olive oil fan Very Happy just in case you haven't noticed....
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:08 pm

ghiro wrote:I now only use Extra Virgin Rapeseed oil for frying, roast potatoes etc

Ah yes, this has become very popular in the UK, probably because it can be grown there. We get near roasties with garlic and herb potato wedges, but still use olive oil for these, simply because we have lots of it... Very Happy

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Geotherm on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:18 pm

Will stick with the lard for fish and chips as flip says. Never use olive oil for deep frying, just for low temps.

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by JulianaAlice on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:05 pm

I agree olive oil is wonderful; and going back to children and school meals, I do think in the UK if olive oil was used in the preparation of cooked vegetables, the improvement in flavour over boiled vegetables, would encourage more children to eat their "greens".
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by modicasa on Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:30 am

To clarify then - fish fried in oil and coated in flour is equivalent to fish coated in a beer batter and fried in anything other than olive oil.  If the Sephardic Jews 'imported frying a bit of fish in the 16th century, that does not mean that they invented fish and chips, which ignored the rather important chips part.  Its like saying that who first boiled an egg invented the omelette because its still an egg.   

And thinly sliced fried chips arent chips.  they are french fries which are different. 

I am with Steve on this one - you should never fry/burn olive oil - it is really not good for you.  (Or the oil) But rapeseed should be banned immediately for being an ugly plant, highly allergenic, stinks, invasive and GM'd to death - I wouldnt let it near Europe let alone my kitchen,

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Gala Placidia on Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:15 am

Juliana Alice, I could not agree more, but not only British children, ALL children should be given steamed veggies with just a dash of olive oil to train them to eat healthy.
Modi... What can I do with you? I know that you love to have the last word, but I am going to spoil that for you. Whether we talk about chips, French fries, frites, allumettes, soufflees, basically we are talking about the same thing: chunks, wedges, slices or any shape of potato cut fried in fat or oil. Nothing new. Shapes and frying mediums have been tried and tested for over five centuries... Ever since the American potatoes arrived into the Old World from the New World courtesy of the Spaniards. The way you eat them, cut them, or fry them is a matter of personal taste and trends. Or are we going to get into another Byzantine discussion about thin and thick pizza bases? Razz
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Re: fish n' chips

Post by Vicino on Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:51 am

Well with modicasa being very very knowledgeable with clear views on many topics, I for one welcome the input and discussion from all. I don't care who has the last word !

Re Chips: When we travel back to the UK we always schedule in a fish & chip supper fresh from the 'chippy'.............because we love them !

Chips here in Le Marche leave me a bit cold and nothing disappoints me more than when in a restaurant you ask for patatine fritte and they bring CRISPS !!! CRISPS !!!!  Sad 

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by modicasa on Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:04 am

There is a huge difference between an English chip and a Belgian french fry - UK chips are bigger so less impregnated with fat when cooked - and when cooked in lard or beef dripping are a deeper golden colour than an anemic and limp french fry.    Yes basically we are talking about the same thing, a deep fried potato:  it is the same ingredient and the same basic cooking process,  but that hides a million variations!   I doubt you would say that a paella is the same thing as a risotto, and if so who invented it.   For one who is so keen on detail  Gaia here you are using a particularly broad brush!

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Re: fish n' chips

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:27 am

Are we talking "fish and chips" here as being healthy Question I think some forget what they have written in the past about their own and OH's diet of food over the years. You can hardly then talk confidently about the rights and wrongs of particular foods. If the potato came from the Americas, some arguments here would suggest they invented horrid "fish & chips". I'm certain many North Americans would argue just that! It amazes me how a number of people on this and other forums talk as experts on the English life style when they don't currently live there. We've only been in Italy 5 years and already we find we are out of touch with the UK.
Just as a matter of interest, UK consumption of olive oil has grown year on year in the last 25 years. I'm absolutely convinced olive oil is healthy for you, just as much as I am that fish and chips is not. However any argument as to longevity being linked to its consumption is to put it mildly questionable , perhaps it's just the British  work harder, so die earlier - just as daft!

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