Your Expert Help Needed (please)

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Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by ghiro on Thu May 07, 2015 7:29 pm

OH & I own Casa Ghiro in joint names.  It is therefore our prima casa.  We are considering building a 'barn'.  This will be garage/storage area on the ground floor with living accommodation on the first floor.

To do this, we are informed, will cost us 22% IVA. Shocked 

However, if it was being built for an 'Italian Resident', IVA would be only 4%.  Smile 

So the options we're being offered are:
1) Either OH or I sign Casa Ghiro over to the other - and the one without the house becomes an 'Italian Resident' and builds the barn
or
2) Someone else, for instance our adult son, becomes an 'Italian Resident', and builds the barn for us.

We are further informed that to become an 'Italian Resident' you just have to go to the local comune and sign the relevant forms.  Then, having got your 4% IVA, you decide you no longer wish to be an 'Italian Resident'.  Job done!

However I suspect things aren't that simple.  Surely there are tax, or other implications, if you become an 'Italian Resident'?  Can OH & I take Casa Ghiro out of joint names and then reinstate joint ownership?  Or perhaps something else I've entirely missed?

HELP!!
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Re: Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by modicasa on Fri May 08, 2015 5:16 am

None of it is that easy.   Firstly, forget signing over the house, it will cost you more than the IVA lost/gained.  Forget the residence thing, its not worth it.  Whether the barn can even get 4% is debatable as it is not a house but a barn, and whether it is a pertinence or not.   The AdE ifs getting very good at demanding money for which it has no right, so any ruse you try to avoid paying tax will probably get you clobbered.   The only reasonable route is to donate the property to your son (if it is frazionabile) and he builds the new barn in his name, assuming he is resident.  Which is fine, except it wil cost you the same as an act of sale to donate the land/building to your son.  It will become a separate property with its own rateable value and IMU/TARI etc - any gain will soon be lost.   If pay the 22% and have done.

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Re: Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by Admin on Fri May 08, 2015 10:22 am

If the house is in both names but you both are not resident then it cannot be your prima casa. It can only be your prima casa if you're resident.

I totally agree with Modi that the AdE are pushing really hard. If you're not resident I absolutely wouldn't do it just to save 18% IVA. Remember that the 4% isn't on everything either and I believe you could only get it if it was a 'pertinenza' to your prima casa.

From what I have read I'm not 100% convinced you could even claim it. Have a look at this article and see what you think.
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Re: Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by ghiro on Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:35 pm

Following the 2 very helpful answers above we abandoned the barn plan.  However we do need a storage area for wood, garden implements etc.  So we're looking now at a single story stone built 'shed'.

Would this also attract IVA at 22% or is there a different rate for 'agricultural' buildings?
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Re: Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by Admin on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:27 pm

I'm afraid not. Anyway, for it to be an agricultural building you would almost certainly need to be a farmer.
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Re: Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by modicasa on Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:35 am

As Admin says you cant build a fabbricato rurale because you arent a farmer.  but you can possibly build a deposito or magazzino using agricultural cubatura - depending on where you live and how much land you have.   So your conundrum is - 4% if you get the concession and have the shed as a pertinence in whcih case you will have your RC recalculated and pay more in TASI if its your prima casa- and may, tip you over into an A/8, (depending what you are now).  Or pay 22% keep it as a wood shed and a D10 or something and everybodys happy.  Or you just build a shed, but this depends where you are and whether they will employ medieval torture methods to make an example of you for flouting planning law.

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Re: Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:33 am

I can only speak for here (Liguria) but a shed can only be temporary unless you get planning permission and that would be the same process for a stone shed or a wooden one. Also, in Liguria only an Imprenditore Agricolo can use the agricultural building index.  In fact there is a group of houses near Dolcedo about to be bulldozed after many years (and for the poor owners built in good faith) because they were built using an index the owners did not posess.
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Re: Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by ghiro on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:40 am

Thank you both.  Again very helpful.  22% IVA it will be! Sad
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Re: Your Expert Help Needed (please)

Post by Flip on Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:24 pm

Why not get a Wooden Shed as advertised on numerous sites here (wood panels and asphalt covered roof) we have a couple in our garden one for wood storage and teh other for garden tools etc. They sit on a wooden panel floor so are deemed tempoary, no Planning consent needed, cost about €500 - €900 depending on size.
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