IVIE for 2013
+2
stevegwmonkseaton
DarcyDog
6 posters
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IVIE for 2013
First topic message reminder :
In case anyone wants to know what the latest is on this subject, the papers are reporting that there are no changes expected to this tax. It has not been suspended like IMU on Prima Casa. Watch this space...
In case anyone wants to know what the latest is on this subject, the papers are reporting that there are no changes expected to this tax. It has not been suspended like IMU on Prima Casa. Watch this space...
Re: IVIE for 2013
Having dealt with and battled the UK Revenue for many years, as a professional accountant specialising in tax planning, I know that dealing with the Agenzia dell'Entrata will be no picnic but someone there should know the rules.
Stage 1 is to get confirmation from the UK HMRC of position and then submit Italian tax returns on the right basis via a Commercialista. After that either the Agenzia will accept or they will not. If the Agenzia disagree with HMRC on where I am resident then the two authorities must, under the DTA, come to an agreement.
Could be fun and games
Stage 1 is to get confirmation from the UK HMRC of position and then submit Italian tax returns on the right basis via a Commercialista. After that either the Agenzia will accept or they will not. If the Agenzia disagree with HMRC on where I am resident then the two authorities must, under the DTA, come to an agreement.
Could be fun and games
Panner- Elder
- Location : Puglia
Posts : 88
Join date : 2013-05-21
Re: IVIE for 2013
Hmmmm - in my experience finding anyone who knows the rules for anything is almost impossible in Italy. The rules change so often it is like trying to hit a moving target.
All the accountants I have encountered here have almost zero experience of DTA. The trick I think is finding one that is honest enought to say when they don't know something and be willing and prepared to find out. There are far too many who will bluff and bluster to sound knowledgeable. Of course it is alays the client who picks up the bill for the accountant's mistakes! Not that s/he would admit to having made any.
I'm currently on my 4th Italian accountant (or is it 5th - losing count!).
All the accountants I have encountered here have almost zero experience of DTA. The trick I think is finding one that is honest enought to say when they don't know something and be willing and prepared to find out. There are far too many who will bluff and bluster to sound knowledgeable. Of course it is alays the client who picks up the bill for the accountant's mistakes! Not that s/he would admit to having made any.
I'm currently on my 4th Italian accountant (or is it 5th - losing count!).
Admin- Admin
- Location : Italy
Posts : 714
Join date : 2013-05-16
Re: IVIE for 2013
Fortunately the DTA rules are fixed as part of an international agreement and can only be changed by mutual agreement following negotiations between the relevant states. They are the same in the UK as Italy. As someone who has the necessary knowledge and expertise in these areas I can guide the commercialista if necessary (once I have found one that I am comfortable with - and that will probably be the hardest part)
Panner- Elder
- Location : Puglia
Posts : 88
Join date : 2013-05-21
Re: IVIE for 2013
And of course you need to remember that in Italy a commercialista who doesnt do what you ask him, doesnt do your tax return, makes you liable for fines, files false returns, etc etc has committed no crime - and it always your fault - which I think is reprehensible.
Re: IVIE for 2013
modicasa is absolutely correct. The first tax return I submitted here (via the accountant of course) I was amazed that not only did I not have to sign it but I didn't even get to see it before it got submitted!!!
Accountants and the tax offcie work in very, very different ways to the UK Panner.
Accountants and the tax offcie work in very, very different ways to the UK Panner.
Admin- Admin
- Location : Italy
Posts : 714
Join date : 2013-05-16
Re: IVIE for 2013
Interesting. The commercialista I have been using so far has sent me the tax returns for approval before finalising. Unfortunately he is ceasing in Italy so I need to find a new one.
In the UK it is now quite common for the tax return not to be signed by the client, but it is approved by them. If the return is wrong in most cases it is still the client who is liable for the tax/penalties even though the accountant may have done it wrong. The client then has to claim for any losses against the accountant and hope he can get some redress.
I would always recommend using a qualified and regulated commercialista rather than a possibly unregulated one, even though it might cost a bit more.
In any country there are good and a small minority of bad accountants. Unfortunately, you sometimes may not know until something goes wrong that you have a bad one.
In the UK it is now quite common for the tax return not to be signed by the client, but it is approved by them. If the return is wrong in most cases it is still the client who is liable for the tax/penalties even though the accountant may have done it wrong. The client then has to claim for any losses against the accountant and hope he can get some redress.
I would always recommend using a qualified and regulated commercialista rather than a possibly unregulated one, even though it might cost a bit more.
In any country there are good and a small minority of bad accountants. Unfortunately, you sometimes may not know until something goes wrong that you have a bad one.
Panner- Elder
- Location : Puglia
Posts : 88
Join date : 2013-05-21
Re: IVIE for 2013
Did those of you with a property outside Italy pay your IVIE for 2012?
If not, you can pay it with this year's tax return (ie 2013 payable in 2014) along with a small fine plus interest. It is not due if the property is worth less than €26,316 or produces an amount due of less than €200.
The amount payable is the value of your property times 0.76%. It is a type of IMU for foreign property and you will receive no bill so it has to be paid on a tax return.
Full details here
The value of your property is the value used for your council tax in the UK. Unfortunately you may not deduct the cost of your council tax from the amount due.
If not, you can pay it with this year's tax return (ie 2013 payable in 2014) along with a small fine plus interest. It is not due if the property is worth less than €26,316 or produces an amount due of less than €200.
The amount payable is the value of your property times 0.76%. It is a type of IMU for foreign property and you will receive no bill so it has to be paid on a tax return.
Full details here
The value of your property is the value used for your council tax in the UK. Unfortunately you may not deduct the cost of your council tax from the amount due.
Admin- Admin
- Location : Italy
Posts : 714
Join date : 2013-05-16
Re: IVIE for 2013
Admin wrote:Did those of you with a property outside Italy pay your IVIE for 2012? If not, you can pay it with this year's tax return (ie 2013 payable in 2014) along with a small fine plus interest. It is not due if the property is worth less than €26,316 or produces an amount due of less than €200. The amount payable is the value of your property times 0.76%. It is a type of IMU for foreign property and you will receive no bill so it has to be paid on a tax return. Full details here
The value of your property is the value used for your council tax in the UK. Unfortunately you may not deduct the cost of your council tax from the amount due.
I assume this only applies to people who are legally resident in Italy and not to those who are legally resident in the UK but might own a holiday home in Italy?
ghiro- Moderator
- Location : Massa-Carrara
Posts : 840
Join date : 2013-05-24
Re: IVIE for 2013
Correct Ghiro.
Beware those who have taken out residency in Italy. You may have to end up explaining to the Italian taxman how you are 'not really' resident.
Beware those who have taken out residency in Italy. You may have to end up explaining to the Italian taxman how you are 'not really' resident.
Admin- Admin
- Location : Italy
Posts : 714
Join date : 2013-05-16
Re: IVIE for 2013
Admin wrote:Correct Ghiro. Beware those who have taken out residency in Italy. You may have to end up explaining to the Italian taxman how you are 'not really' resident.
Phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!
ghiro- Moderator
- Location : Massa-Carrara
Posts : 840
Join date : 2013-05-24
Re: IVIE for 2013
Admin wrote:Did those of you with a property outside Italy pay your IVIE for 2012? If not, you can pay it with this year's tax return (ie 2013 payable in 2014) along with a small fine plus interest. It is not due if the property is worth less than €26,316 or produces an amount due of less than €200. The amount payable is the value of your property times 0.76%. It is a type of IMU for foreign property and you will receive no bill so it has to be paid on a tax return. Full details here
The value of your property is the value used for your council tax in the UK. Unfortunately you may not deduct the cost of your council tax from the amount due.
It would be good for anyone following this thread at a later date if someone could clarify this.
"worth less than €26,316 or produces an amount due of less than €200" are the same thing in effect.
There was a lot of discussion about the value of the property if it was in the UK at the time IVIE came in and some were saying it would be the value you bought at (exceptionally low if you bought years ago) and others the old rateable value (now Band you are in for council tax). Was it established it was the rateable/band value?
stevegwmonkseaton- Elder
- Location : Abruzzo
Posts : 1927
Join date : 2013-05-20
Re: IVIE for 2013
Everything I have seen refers to council tax value.
So, if your house is worth 26,316 (which gives an amount due of €200) or less then you have nothing to pay.
It's only the same thing for UK properties. There are other calculations for other countries hence the two figures.
I would imagine that is impossible to have a property with a value lower than that.
So, if your house is worth 26,316 (which gives an amount due of €200) or less then you have nothing to pay.
It's only the same thing for UK properties. There are other calculations for other countries hence the two figures.
I would imagine that is impossible to have a property with a value lower than that.
Admin- Admin
- Location : Italy
Posts : 714
Join date : 2013-05-16
Re: IVIE for 2013
Admin wrote:Everything I have seen refers to council tax value.So, if your house is worth 26,316 (which gives an amount due of €200) or less then you have nothing to pay. It's only the same thing for UK properties. There are other calculations for other countries hence the two figures.
I would imagine that is impossible to have a property with a value lower than that.
Thank you yet again Admin.... Council Tax value is in bands these days Values HERE for anyone that need them (get your BAND HERE ) . So I would guess they would use the higher maximum value. Residency or not, definite one to factor in when considering buying in Italy.
stevegwmonkseaton- Elder
- Location : Abruzzo
Posts : 1927
Join date : 2013-05-20
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