Lots of changes on immigration, permessi etc

I have just noticed that all of the rules for entering, visiting and staying in Italy have changed. I have posted the new rules in Italian under residency and will slowly translate them. I've started but there are a LOT!

It looks like Italy has finally decided to comply properly with the EU rules whilst implementing some new ones.

Some interesting changes such as EU citizens now having a form to register their presence for stays of less than 3 months and if you don't then they will assume it is for longer. I can think of a few implications there but then I'm an old cynic who thinks they are just after your cash   

With all the things you have to do, then many thanks for taking the time to go through all these new regulations .......... brain hurts!!!

Well, there might be a silver lining. For example (and I haven't read through the stuff yet, just going by Admin's comment about an EU person being able to register their presence within 3 months) this may well result in non-residents - but registered persons - being allowed to buy an Italian car. 

Actually I don't think this (register before 90 days) is new: it's been something it has been possible to do for some years: the only people who did it were those likely to be stopped by the police (honest Romanians and the like) who felt it helpful to have some sort of formal Italian ID. 

It will be interesting to discover if the Italians intend to make it compulsory rather than voluntary - I doubt that will find favour in Brussels.

It's not compulsory but if you don't they will assume you are resident for longer so there is a big incentive to do it.
Non EU citizens HAVE to do it.

Admin wrote:Some interesting changes such as EU citizens now having a form to register their presence for stays of less than 3 months and if you don't then they will assume it is for longer. I can think of a few implications there but then I'm an old cynic who thinks they are just after your cash   

As far as I'm aware nobody in Italy knows whether I'm there or not!  Whether I fly in to Pisa or drive in via Chiasso no record of my passport is ever taken going in or, indeed, going out.

Paolo, the farmer next door, knows.  And various Italian and ex-pat friends know.  But nobody else.

From time to time I drop into the commune to see Mario and get my IMU (now ICU?) form before going to the local bank to pay it.  Mario appears to have no interest as to when I arrived or when I intend to leave.

So Penny, where do I get given this 'form'?  At the frontier?  At the airport?  Or is Mario going to pop round one afternoon to give it to me?

You're not the only 'old cynic' around here!    

I guess reading the guff you are supposed to pick one up and fill it in and if you don't, then they will assume you have been here longer unless WE can provide proof to the contrary...
In the meat time they will confiscate your car, house land and money  - ok perhaps not yet!!!

Where I live we have a lot of people who claim residency in Monaco (tax free) but actually live in Italy. To catch them out the Monagasque authorities check the utility useage amo gst other things.

Thanks for the heads up Admin    I wouldn’t panic though as this is not directed at EU citizens.  Italy can only implement legislation that affects EU citizens if it complies with EU regulations. They can try but it’ll be challenged and thrown out by the EU.  The EU ethos is freedom of movement of people and goods. Every EU country is tightening up on immigration; it is an EU directive and more to do with security and anti-terror attacks.
 
I think this is just another scaremongering tactic timed to coincide with the forthcoming EU elections 

I can't see anything scary in it so I don't see they are scaremongering. The big change for EU citizens is that civil partnerships and de facto partnerships are now recognised. I thought it interesting that they actually stated that if you don't register when you arrive you will automatically be assumed to be staying longer than 3 months. I can see the tax man here rubbing his hands together. It might take a while but I'll be very surprised if it doesn't happen.
Most of the changes are for non-EU citizens.

I'm half of a suspicion that Casa Monal is right, far too near voting time....

And why should such move have any effect on the forthcoming EU elections?  I agree with Admin on this matter.

Gala Placidia wrote:And why should such move have any effect on the forthcoming EU elections?  I agree with Admin on this matter.

... for real, like immigration is not an issue in Europe or these elections...

Sorry, Steve, but these elections, are not going to solve the immigration problem by themselves and the new regulations deal with procedure matters regarding potential  legal migrants or lengthy stays, which are not the problem area that countries like Spain, Italy and, to a lesser extent, have to deal with. The spirit of these elections is to try to get the best possible people to represent us at EU meetings.

No point in arguing with you Gala, as you just don't see the obvious! Wrong as it might be, raising the immigration issue gets many votes, plain and simple.

Steve, the OBVIOUS is that these "new" rules and regulations are dated September 2013 (modified in November of the same year) and this means that there is no link between the forthcoming election and  these new instructions. Italy is simply adapting its rules to what other EU countries are currently doing. Consequently, it is not the Italian politicians raising the issue right now, although some politicians may use it to get votes, but they will attack illegal immigration without refering to these particular rules as published by the State Police last year.

There is NO EU directive regarding these rules, therefore the introduction and the timing is purely down to Italian politicians to announce/authorise at a time when ELECTIONS  are due. OBVIOUSLY as I've said education counts for nothing!

Steve, have you recently checked your blood pressure?  

Gala Placidia wrote:Steve, have you recently checked your blood pressure?  

Yeh, it's slightly less than yours      

I have very low blood pressure, so you must be almost dead...   

Gala Placidia wrote:I have very low blood pressure, so you must be almost dead...   

Oh dear, sorry to hear that Gala, I did not realise you were unwell.... Low blood pressure can be very bad, perhaps your diet is not quite as it should be.

Id say that the rules havent changed, but just been written down slightly better.

As I said originally, some have changed and others as Modi says have been written better. There was a new EU directive in 2011/2012 affecting Schengen countries which was ratified by Italy the following year. The changes on the Polizia di Stato website now reflect these. For the really anally retentive amongst you I shall dig it out!
The main changes were for non-EU citizens, introducing new reasons for visa (including volunteering), allowing civil partners and de facto partners to apply for a permesso based on their EU citizen partner's residency and clarifying when all citizens have to register their presence and where. A new concept was introduced for EU citizens, staying less than 3 months, from non-Schengen countries whereby the stamp in your passport acts to register your presence. Italy (separately from the EU) has decided that if you are an EU citizen staying less than 3 months and choose to rely on the stamp in your passport then they will assume you are here for longer unless you can prove otherwise. That is pretty clearly aimed at people who claim they are non-resident but actually spend a lot of time here and don't pay any tax.

I agree with Modi that there is little or no change for the bulk of people from the EU. Then again I've never looked at the none EU rules, so would not know what has changed. Regards it being to stop tax avoidance I have my doubts as there are much more comprehensive changes and agreements to cooperation in exchanging information that will have a much bigger impact - suspect there will be no hiding. Additionally being here 3 months or more has little to do with your tax status as far as I can see, it is more a question of that explained by Panner on here i.e. if you are tax resident or domiciled here. The 182 day rule would appear to be the real marker, not the 90 day.

Maybe I've had a lot more involvement with the taxman here than you Steve but I still stick by my opinion. I know a lot of people who have been caught out recently and I know in certain areas the Agenzia delle Entrate is specifically targetting non-Italians.

I agree that being here 3 months or more has little to do with your tax status in Italy but the Italian tax authorities consider official residency as an indicator of tax residency in Italy. Arguing with the tax office here is extremely difficult. If I were in the position of having a holiday home here I would either be popping over to the UK or Croatia after 3 months of being in Italy (and making sure my passport was stamped on my return) or I just wouldn't stay for more than 3 months in any 6 month period and I'd keep proof of my travel - just to be on the safe side.