I'm confused - help please!

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I'm confused - help please!

Post by mammamia on Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

I need some help please. I am now resident in the UK and trying to keep up to date with payments in Italy through internet banking. Fine, except I cannot understand what is going on with the local taxes. I have an apartment in San Benedetto del tronto (2nd house) and last year paid my full IMU payments in June and December (the same as the year before) as well as the full TARSU in May and September. I have not heard anything about whatever the new tax is going to be so I looked on the comune's website. It said that I should pay TARSI 2014 by 16th June and to go on to the cityportal to work out how much it is going to be. I went on to the site, and it just had how to calculate IMU for 20132 - which I have already paid!
So, the first question is what is TARSI? Then how do you calculate it? When do you have to pay it? Do you fill in a modified F24 to pay it? At the moment I have not committed any violations (so the city portal says!) but I think I am going to be headed that way soon!
Help please from you lovely people who have their fingers on the button. Rolling Eyes
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Admin on Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:41 pm

Nope. There was a mini IMU for some people in January which was for 2013. You always pay IMU in June and December
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Gala Placidia on Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:25 pm

Definitely, June and December. We wish there was the possibility of making a single payment for the full year, with an option to pay in two installments....
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by modicasa on Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:13 am

Your comune may have decided to not have a TASI yet, but by October you will have to pay something, by law.
You can pay all your IMU in one go if you like - ust tick the Saldo box on your F24, and its done.  But that doesnt cover you if the comune decide to tweak the aliquota between June and December. .

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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Casa Monal on Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:56 am

Thanks for your replies everyone Smile 
 
I checked our records and the ‘January’ payment I referred to was actually paid on the 17th February when we were in Italy. It was an IMU payment due on the 16th December but it took us over a month to find out the amount Exclamation 
 

I’m still confused though (it doesn’t take much  Embarassed ) so we do pay twice a year i.e. 16th June and 16th December. If I understand the reply from our accountant correctly, we have nothing to pay for the remainder of 2014, so on the 16th December 2014 the payment we make will be for January – June 2015.  I’ll send her another email to clarify; I need to know.
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Vicino on Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:11 am

You can pay in a single instalment (i.e. the lot), or two instalments (i.e. 50% June, the other 50% in December).

I tend to pay it all in one just to get rid of the hassle UNTIL they change the rules again !!   Evil or Very Mad 

You would THINK that it should be a simple exercise..............here is a bill sir, please pay it !

V

V
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Casa Monal on Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:03 pm

Vicino wrote:You can pay in a single instalment (i.e. the lot), or two instalments (i.e. 50% June, the other 50% in December).I tend to pay it all in one just to get rid of the hassle UNTIL they change the rules again !!   Evil or Very Mad You would THINK that it should be a simple exercise..............here is a bill sir, please pay it !

V  V

Yep it’s not rocket science...it seems to works for the rest of the world Twisted Evil
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:40 am

Casa Monal, if your comune ups the rate for 2014 IMU before December then you will have to pay the extra IMU for 2014 in December. You cannot pay IMU for 2015 until June 2015. You can't pay it in December 2014 even if you want to.
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Hope it makes sense!

Post by Casa Monal on Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:11 pm

Admin wrote:Casa Monal, if your comune ups the rate for 2014 IMU before December then you will have to pay the extra IMU for 2014 in December. You cannot pay IMU for 2015 until June 2015. You can't pay it in December 2014 even if you want to.



Thanks Admin Very Happy 

Here's an explanation how to calculate IMU from our accountant :

Buongiorno
l'IMU si paga posticipata , per cui al 16/06/2014 si pagano i primi 6 mesi del 2014 .
Il restante periodo luglio-dicembre 2014 si pagherà a dicembre 2014 .
Il calcolo (su base annua ) è così fatto :

( Rendita catastale x 105 ): 100 ) x 160 = Imponibile IMU

Imposta dovuta (su base annua ) = (Imponibile IMU x 9,6/1000) ( 9,6 è l'aliquota deliberata dal Comune , che annualmente potrebbe variare ).

Se l'immobile è posseduto al 50% come nel vostro caso , l'imposta va suddivisa tra i due proprietari .

Se il Comune ha deliberato già le aliquote per l'anno in corso , si può pagare anche in un'unica soluzione a giugno , oppure rateizzare in due rate .
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Sagraiasolar on Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:06 pm

Thanks to all for this helpful thread --- I'm aware that there has been/is a payment deadline of 16th Dec but I paid IMU on 16th October with a note to myself that the next one was 16 Jan 2015  so why am I out of kilter??....  I haven't got to grips with TARSI yet and I'm aware that I should pay that now maybe including the first installment now overdue.
It's all very nerve wracking but I'm loath to pay a comercialista €100 to work out a bill for a similar ammount - might as well overpay the comune.
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:04 pm

Sagraiasolar wrote:Thanks to all for this helpful thread --- I'm aware that there has been/is a payment deadline of 16th Dec but I paid IMU on 16th October with a note to myself that the next one was 16 Jan 2015  so why am I out of kilter??....  I haven't got to grips with TARSI yet and I'm aware that I should pay that now maybe including the first installment now overdue.It's all very nerve wracking but I'm loath to pay a comercialista €100 to work out a bill for a similar ammount - might as well overpay the comune.

Not surprised there is confusion as some Comune still have IMU or refer to it as that or something else, have bits they missed and charge you at a later date. I think the variation between Comune is the worst thing, followed by them forever changing the deadlines, although this year there does seem to have been some effort to control it (not that it's really worked). My understanding on TASI was that they had a deadline in June to collect half, failing that the next I think was October, then they got another bite to collect it all on the 16th Dec. Have to admit our Comune have been great and up to now I cannot fault them.

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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Admin on Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:33 pm

IMU is always due on 16th June and 16th December just like ICI was.

TASI was due on 16th June if your comune decided on the rate in time, if not then  you could pay it in one lump sum by 16th October. If you paid your comune the TASI in June then the second part is due by 16th December. Obviously if you paid in one lump sum in October then there is nothing to pay in December.

TARI (rubbish tax) is paid via the bill they send you.

There has been a lot of confusion over IMU on agricultural land and this deadline for payment of the whole sum due is now 26th January but at one point was stated as 16th January. Maybe that is where the confusion arose?

This is a good site for calculating IMU & TASI.
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Flip on Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:55 pm

....and if you've forgotten to pay it today then factor in a fine..... Evil or Very Mad
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Sagraiasolar on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:09 pm

As ever you are all a mine of information ... many thanks ... with thousands of accounts to check and people who don't have computers and pay wrong or late I bet it would be a very long time, if ever, before ones account was checked especially if it looked about right with something paid in.
Now that's sorted I see in 'similar topics' on this page "I'm a little confused about some cobras" ...  a little help!
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by The Original Relaxed on Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:59 am

Well, I too am confused! 

Admin says that the TASI element if paid in October (in the situation that the comune had not established the aliquota before June) was a complete payment of TASI for 2014.

That was not my understanding (based on a decent online calculator): I fully expected to pay the same amount of TASI as had been paid in October, again, in the December payment. However, the interpretation of my commercialista is the same as Admin, and I wasn't asked for any more TASI this December - having paid it in October.

Everybody else to whom I have spoken (who have depended on the comune website F24s) have paid the October TASI plus the same amount in December.
If Admin, and my commercialista, are correct (that if TASI was paid in October it was a whole year payment), then a sackload of people have overpaid.
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by modicasa on Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:05 am

The payment in October was the first tranche delayed from June.  The balancee was payable yesterday.

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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Admin on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:10 am

I've read online both the version what I wrote and Modi so it is confusing.

If you use the online calculators you can enter the amount you have already paid and it will tell you if there is still anything outstanding, that way there can be no confusion.

The one thing that is confusing is that both IMU and TASI must be paid in full by 16th December.

IMU on land at the moment has a deadline of 26th January but for the details we'll need to wait.
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:41 am

I think a lot of the confusion is due to the fact (as always) they could set a rate in June (not many did) and revise that rate later in the year (October), making more payable on the first instalment for the few that paid such. Most I believe set their rate in October and there is no revision to this? Therefore if you put you comune aliquota set (the later if they had an earlier and revised later) in to the calculator (is this an official site) ? Then, if you leave the default 12 month set, then I can't see how that can be anything but the rate for the entire year. Anyone who paid an amount in October and the same in December must have halved the rate calculated, hence making the same payable in December. We specifically asked our comune if they could tell us in October how much we would need to pay for the year as we would not be there in December, like I said they did so and the amount was a few cents (rounding) different to the calculator.

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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:47 am

I think you could have done either in October i.e. paid half or paid in full. I should have added that once you put in your comune on the above link you get a little orange (to me) "Delibere" button where you can click and get access to your own comunes official PDFs on their rates. Our problem with these was our poor understanding of Italian.... I'm sure others will be able to read them, however even in English I doubt some of them will be clear cut.

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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Vicino on Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:17 pm

Our problem with these was our poor understanding of Italian....

Use the Chrome browser if you need an automatic translator
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by stevegwmonkseaton on Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:25 pm

Vicino wrote:
Our problem with these was our poor understanding of Italian....
Use the Chrome browser if you need an automatic translator

Unfortunately the links lead to PDF documents and although you can get google translate to do entire PDF docs, it does not do them too well! I suspect even if it did, like I said, even in English I would not be sure what they were saying. I have to admit this is often the case with UK official documentation these days (don't if it's them or me...). Certainly nice to see you back posting "V" Very Happy

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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Flip on Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:45 pm

We got caught out as initially they said there would be nothing to pay in October, as they had not reached agreement when we asked, but now when we paid the December instalment, we also had a fine to pay (€ 22) because we had not paid any in October, when we challenged it they said they set it at the last minute, but obviously by the number of people complaining, they omitted to make it public and widely publicise it.
The really annoying thing about all this is, I suspect along with others, that this was the plan to raise extra cash by catching people out. Why can' t they just set it, send out a bill and let people pay it, instead of all this second guessing, having to go to them to find out how much you owe and then paying it.
Come on Italy be open, send out a Bill and we'll pay it Evil or Very Mad
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Vicino on Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:03 pm

The most annoying thing to us about living here is THEY DO NOT TELL US WHAT WE NEED TO DO !!

grrrr!!!
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Send us a bill - BASTA!

Post by Casa Monal on Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:03 pm

I received a reminder from our ‘accountant’ that the second payment was due on the 16/12 but I’d already set a reminder and had contacted the commune who reassured me that no payment was due. The payment we made in June was the full payment…thank goodness because that payment represented an increase of 65%  Exclamation I received a second email from the ‘accountant’ the next day to tell me to ignore her earlier email, as no payment was due. To be double sure, I called our bank manager who phoned the commune on our behalf and again, they told him that we did not have to pay.  *sigh* just sending a bill would be so simple… Rolling Eyes
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

Post by Vicino on Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:30 pm

Casa M.................how appalling is that !!!.....and then they charge you for their advice!!
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Re: I'm confused - help please!

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