Car Tax / Bollo

First topic message reminder :

I have been offered a free car by a friend in England.  I obviously don't want to pay uk road tax so will SORN the vehicle and will therefore not have to take it back for MOT every year. If I 'forget' to register the car in Italy and so would not pay the Italian Bollo and cost of changing plates etc would I be breaking the law, and can you get Revizione for insurance purposes on an unregistered car in Italy ?  I doubt it very much, but know other people doing this......

The Original Relaxed wrote:Here is a Wikipedia page, comprehensively referenced, which is absolutely clear that an ITALIAN driving licence, plastic or paper, (with a photo) does count as a documento di riconoscimento according to the relevant Italian law. I'm still researching whether this applies to a non Italian driving licence, but I think it does. HOWEVER, an Italian licence issued after January 19th 2013 no longer carries an address, so I wouldn't be surprised if that means it is suddenly seen as no good as an identity document; except that the law about ID documents is only concerned with identifying a person, and certainly UK passports are acceptable and do not carry an address. 


http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documento_di_riconoscimento_in_Italia

 I think that there is a difference between the ITALIAN documents which are recognized as Identity Documents in Italy and foreign ones. I think that Italian authorities would recognize as such a passport or an identity card, even if they do not contain an address. Driving licences... not so sure... and I also have doubts with the new EU licence after the 19th January 2013.

chrisnotton wrote:If you occasionally return to the UK (or say you do) in you car for visits etc. then you can keep your UK registration, or buy and run a UK registered car indefinitely.

 That is not correct I'm afraid. It depends on where you live as to how strictly they enforce the law of course, but if you are resident in Italy then after 12 months you must register your UK car here. If you choose not to that is your choice but it is not legal.


 I had a conversation with the comune about this as my husband's Carta d'Identità is in his old (2 previous) address from a different region and comune, which often causes great confusion, and they said it is irrelevant becuase the purpose of the Carta d'Identità is to identify the person via a photo and not to identify or confirm their address. Therefore I think the fact that new driving licences don't have an address on them will still mena they can be used as ID.

Admin wrote:

chrisnotton wrote:If you occasionally return to the UK (or say you do) in you car for visits etc. then you can keep your UK registration, or buy and run a UK registered car indefinitely.

 That is not correct I'm afraid. It depends on where you live as to how strictly they enforce the law of course, but if you are resident in Italy then after 12 months you must register your UK car here. If you choose not to that is your choice but it is not legal.

 I had a conversation with the comune about this as my husband's Carta d'Identità is in his old (2 previous) address from a different region and comune, which often causes great confusion, and they said it is irrelevant becuase the purpose of the Carta d'Identità is to identify the person via a photo and not to identify or confirm their address. Therefore I think the fact that new driving licences don't have an address on them will still mena they can be used as ID.

New licence (in the UK) does indeed have your address on it... and from I have looked at is little different to the UK plastic card type that came in in July 2011. Only trouble there would be the fact that the address has to be a UK address...

Gala Placidia wrote:Sorry, a foreign vehicle, even an EU vehicle, cannot go through "revisione"  as per www.revisioneauto. eu

 Ah Haa, people I know, not paying Bollo or Revisione here are enjoying many pizza meals out and about then..........

Admin wrote:

chrisnotton wrote:If you occasionally return to the UK (or say you do) in you car for visits etc. then you can keep your UK registration, or buy and run a UK registered car indefinitely.

 That is not correct I'm afraid. It depends on where you live as to how strictly they enforce the law of course, but if you are resident in Italy then after 12 months you must register your UK car here. If you choose not to that is your choice but it is not legal.

 I had a conversation with the comune about this as my husband's Carta d'Identità is in his old (2 previous) address from a different region and comune, which often causes great confusion, and they said it is irrelevant becuase the purpose of the Carta d'Identità is to identify the person via a photo and not to identify or confirm their address. Therefore I think the fact that new driving licences don't have an address on them will still mena they can be used as ID.

Hmm that's interesting. I have both a UK & Italian address & work in England on a regular basis so I can't see how they can enforce Italian registration esp. if I continue to use my UK DL. If we have any problems with it I'll transfer the title to the missus as she is still a UK resident 

chrisnotton wrote:I can't see how they can enforce Italian registration esp. if I continue to use my UK DL. If we have any problems with it I'll transfer the title to the missus as she is still a UK resident 

It has nothing to do with your driving licence. Any EU driving licence you can easily argue about and win, but if you are (long term) driving a UK reg car while being a resident in Italy you are open to potential unwinnable arguments. Of course, it may not come to this, depends on your powers of persuasion with the guy who stops you, and if you avoid hitting anybody, and for sure many people wing it successfully, but "banged to rights" you could be in trouble.

I might comport myself in such a way, but I would never advise anyone else to do so, even on a young forum.

As ever Italian law is as variable and ambiguous as possible. The Law in Italy does require you to carry 'ID' with you at all times if you are both resident or tourist, but as a non Schengen country UK residents must carry a valid Passport (so the law says) as no other form of ID is acceptable, allegedly.
Re the UK registered cars, our local plod says that although they know it goes on, and they do not condone it, as long as the vehicle is legally insured for all 3rd party claims, and roadworthy (another scurrilous term), they have 'better things to do' than chase up UK cars that have been here over 12 months and not changed over to Italian plates.

This is not from an Italian authority; however, it is further proof of this "ambiguity" Flip was mentioning.
ID documents Italy

Gala's link is interesting as it seems quite clear to be honest:

DECRETO DEL PRESIDENTE DELLA REPUBBLICA 28 dicembre 2000, n. 445
Articolo 35 (L-R)
Documenti di identita' e di riconoscimento
1. In tutti i casi in cui nel presente testo unico viene richiesto un documento di identita', esso puo' sempre essere sostituito dal documento di riconoscimento equipollente ai sensi del comma 2. (R)
2. Sono equipollenti alla carta di identita' il passaporto, la patente di guida, la patente nautica, il libretto di pensione, il patentino di abilitazione alla conduzione di impianti termici, il porto d'armi, le tessere di riconoscimento, purche' munite di fotografia e di  timbro o di altra segnatura equivalente, rilasciate da un'amministrazione dello Stato. (R)
3. Nei documenti d'identita' e di riconoscimento non e' necessaria l'indicazione o l'attestazione dello stato civile, salvo specifica istanza del richiedente. (L)

This is backed up by the info on the Carabinieri website too.

I don't see why the Schengen agreement should have any bearing as this relates to travel between EU states. The Italian Carta d'Identità says it can't be used for travel (if you're a British citizen) on the back. It can still be used as a form of id as it meets the requirements above. Where did you get the info from Flip?

Ah yes, I too have read that decreto, and in the para 2 which you quote the issuing authority is "un'aministrazione dello Stato". That to me reads clearly to be talking about documents issued by the Italian state.

More relevant is from (same law) DPR n. 445 del 2000art. 1 "Definizioni", comma 1 c): "DOCUMENTO DI RICONOSCIMENTO ogni documento munito di fotografia del titolare e rilasciato, su supporto cartaceo, magnetico o informatico, da una pubblica amministrazione italiana o di altri Stati, che consente l'identificazione personale del titolare". 


I can't see any wriggle room here: a UK photo driving licence does allow the identification of the person holding it - that is not the first intention of the driving licence, but that requirement is not specified.


So I think we are in agreement!

In general, foreign residents (both EU and non-EU) cannot use their ID cards to travel within the EU. They must use their passports and their ID cards are only needed to prove that they are residents. At least, in Spain and France this is the rule and I would say that Italy has a similar policy.

If you have a brand new licence it is valid as ID, if it isnt you must have the card with associated tatty old bit of paper.  Simple.  You can always carry a photogopy of your passport with you, and the police will let you take the original to a copshop of your choice within 24 hours. 
Driving a car with no docs in ITaly is a crime. The car will be sequestered, you will be prosecuted.  From 1 Oct this year DVLC is connected by big wires to the motorizzazzione - cars/owners will be traced.