INTERESTING LINK

by **Gala Placidia** Thu May 29, 2014 3:43 pm

In Italian, but full of information on lots of topics: Interesting link

by Vicino Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:33 am

Good man !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/10915294/War-veteran-expat-campaigner-wins-praise-from-EU.html

by **Gala Placidia** Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:06 am

I am very glad to see that his efforts are recognized. He is a great man who is fighting for a worthy cause. I do hope that the British government will finally understand that voting in your own country's election, even if you are residing overseas, is a basic right already enjoyed by many other EU citizens. As long as you hold a country's citizenship and passport, one should have the same rights enjoyed by other countrymen who reside within the country's own territory.

by Flip Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:41 am

You do have this right Gala, and you can apply to have your voting papers sent to you and use postal voting. However the papers are not sent out more than 3 days before an Election, so having them returned by end of voting is impossible.

by **Gala Placidia** Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:01 am

Well, then it is, in practice, the same thing as not having voting rights... Furthermore, I believe that overseas residents should have their own representatives. Perhaps these candidates would be vigilant and make sure that voting papers will arrive on time...

by Flip Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:55 pm

In theory Gala we do have our own representatives, that is covered by the European Parliament elections, where one is supposed to vote for the Party/Person most closely aligned with your wishes.
Having said all this when we were in the UK the Italian government used to send over Voting papers (with prepaid reply envelopes) for all the registered Italian Citizens in our household and a while ago they enclosed vouchers so you could even get assisted air fares to allow you to come back to Italy and vote in person. That would go some way to explaining why Italy is now broke......

by **Admin** Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:07 pm

Actully Flip that is only true for the first 15 years. After that we have no right to vote from abroad which s what Harry is fighting for (ably assisted by Charlotte Oliver).

by **Gala Placidia** Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:21 pm

This was actually what I was referring to, as I could remember something written by Charlotte. If citizenship has no time limitations, why should citizenship rights be affected? It is a matter of basic common sense...

by lancashire lass Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:26 pm

"Having said all this when we were in the UK the Italian government used to send over Voting papers (with prepaid reply envelopes) for all the registered Italian Citizens in our household and a while ago they enclosed vouchers so you could even get assisted air fares to allow you to come back to Italy and vote in person. "They still do flip!!

My husband has lived in the UK for over 50 years and has paid his taxes there all his life but he is not able to vote in the uk.

by Carciofo Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:43 pm

Flip wrote:...and a while ago they enclosed vouchers so you could even get assisted air fares to allow you to come back to Italy and vote in person.....

Wow, that's pretty astonishing. I can't imagine what kind of warped thinking would consider that kind of expense legitimate. It not only helps to explain how Italy is so broke, it also throws a light on Italian political decision making.

I don't have hard and fast thoughts on this, but I'm not sure I think one should be able to vote in one's "home" country's elections after one has emigrated to another country. I no longer live in my home country and even if I had to pay tax there (which I don't) I couldn't say I would give anything but a passing glance at their politics. Surely one's political allegiances should be based on seeing how your party has done, and how it's policies have affected the country while one is "in the thick of it". I can see there's a valid argument that one should be able to vote out a government that levies unfair taxes affecting emigrés but you only have to look at someone like Sean Connery to see how easily this can be based on sentiment rather than fact.

by **Gala Placidia** Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:30 pm

Flip wrote:In theory Gala we do have our own representatives, that is covered by the European Parliament elections, where one is supposed to vote for the Party/Person most closely aligned with your wishes.Having said all this when we were in the UK the Italian government used to send over Voting papers (with prepaid reply envelopes) for all the registered Italian Citizens in our household and a while ago they enclosed vouchers so you could even get assisted air fares to allow you to come back to Italy and vote in person. That would go some way to explaining why Italy is now broke......

Sorry, Flip, but what you are stating is not correct. The only assisted travelling expenses were train fares within Italy, and that was only until 2001 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_constituencies_of_the_Parliament_of_Italy

by Casa Monal Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:54 pm

I think that one of the reasons quoted i.e. ‘tax reason’ must surely only apply to a few very wealthy people living abroad. And what about the recent spat of UK celebrities who have been in the press for tax avoidance? Take away their right to vote! The majority of us aren’t tax exiles, just EU citizens exercising our right to free movement by living, working and paying taxes in another EU country. Some of our British friends, who live in Italy, even pay UK tax.

If you are an EU citizen living in another member state, you have the right to vote in local, regional and European elections, but not in elections to the national parliament – a right reserved only for nationals of this respective country.

It doesn’t seem fair that as a tax paying EU citizen that we can’t vote in any national election. If you feel strongly about it, then click the link below, sign up and let them know!

LET ME VOTE

"no taxation without representation" was one of the causes of the American Revolution...

by **Gala Placidia** Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:59 pm

Another consideration is that foreigners, who, in the majority of cases, do pay taxes in their country of residence are not allowed to vote... Which means that taxation does not condition voting rights, which are linked to citizenship. Actually, it is a BASIC citizenship right. It has nothing to do with taxation and the American Revolution quote is totally outdated. I would ask the Americans if they would be willing to grant voting rights to all alien residents in their country who do pay taxes... Rolling Eyes

by Vicino Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:43 am

Our friends from Malta............live in the UK permanent, and have just returned from a subsidised trip to Malta to vote (£35 ticket cost) !

V

by **Gala Placidia** Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:15 am

Well, if you investigate the matter a bit further, it looks more as a way to give Air Malta some subsidies http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/15727/opm-confirms-election-flights-will-be-kept-despite-air-malta-restructuring-20120203

by Flip Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:16 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:
Flip wrote:In theory Gala we do have our own representatives, that is covered by the European Parliament elections, where one is supposed to vote for the Party/Person most closely aligned with your wishes.Having said all this when we were in the UK the Italian government used to send over Voting papers (with prepaid reply envelopes) for all the registered Italian Citizens in our household and a while ago they enclosed vouchers so you could even get assisted air fares to allow you to come back to Italy and vote in person. That would go some way to explaining why Italy is now broke......

Sorry, Flip, but what you are stating is not correct. The only assisted travelling expenses were train fares within Italy, and that was only until 2001 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_constituencies_of_the_Parliament_of_Italy

Can't remember the exact details Gala, but the Napoli Comune concerned used to send a form which you filled in, prior and they would do something to organise a booking voucher. We never did it, because it was all to much of a faf so I cannot confirm the actual details but I know a friend of ours used to go back like this at every opportunity (so he told us), so I can only remember the travel voucher bit not the actual details now.

by **Gala Placidia** Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:42 pm

It was domestic travel by train only, Flip; however, Italians living in France or Switzerland used to take advantage of the offer. The Maltese scheme sounds more "advantageous", providing Air Malta flies into their particular country. On the other hand, these concessions seem anachronic as many countries offer the possibility of voting at your nearest Consulate. In any case, I guess that voting online would be a reality in a few years, which will be great and will save lots of money. In my case, I already have the new electronic ID card from the Spanish government, which allows me to do many things online and I would say that voting with it is not far away.

by Neil D Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:44 am

Carciofo wrote:
Flip wrote:...and a while ago they enclosed vouchers so you could even get assisted air fares to allow you to come back to Italy and vote in person.....

Wow, that's pretty astonishing. I can't imagine what kind of warped thinking would consider that kind of expense legitimate. It not only helps to explain how Italy is so broke, it also throws a light on Italian political decision making.

The Christian Democrats were very keen on Italian emigrants voting since they tended to vote for them. So, no expense was spared in getting their votes. This was especially important in the 1948 elections when the DC and Papacy feared a Communist/Socialist victory and the CIA funded the DC and associated anti-Communist factions to the tune of $1m.

by Casa Monal Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:23 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:Which means that taxation does not condition voting rights, which are linked to citizenship. Actually, it is a BASIC citizenship right...

…as is access to clean water, food and education…but somehow we choose to ignore that… Neutral

I don’t see voting as a right, more of a privilege…

by **Gala Placidia** Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:34 pm

Sorry, but clean water, food, education... and I would add health are basic human rights, which should be available to all human beings, regardless of nationality. Voting is a citizenship right, as it is having a passport, protection and assistance from consular and/or diplomatic representatives while overseas... just to name a few. We are talking about different rights.

P.S. These are the citizenship rights granted to all those who are EU citizens. To these, we have to add the citizenship rights which are particular to the different EU nationalities. http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/index_en.htm

by Casa Monal Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:55 pm

Gala Placidia wrote:Sorry, but clean water, food, education... and I would add health are basic human rights, which should be available to all human beings, regardless of nationality. Voting is a citizenship right, as it is having a passport, protection and assistance from consular and/or diplomatic representatives while overseas... just to name a few. We are talking about different rights.P.S. These are the citizenship rights granted to all those who are EU citizens. To these, we have to add the citizenship rights which are particular to the different EU nationalities. http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/index_en.htm

Semantics Gala... Smile

by **Gala Placidia** Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:15 pm

No, Casa Monal, we are talking about RIGHTS. Different kinds, but they should be upheld and respected by both governments and individuals. Perhaps, those rights are mere semantics for some politicians and this may be the reason why they are becoming highly unpopular...

by Casa Monal Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:36 am

Semantics Gala... rights are rights...humans are citizens...

by **Gala Placidia** Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:39 pm

You must have been top of the class at syllogistic reasoning Razz

Very, very twisted Twisted Evil

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