Car Tax / Bollo

I have been offered a free car by a friend in England.  I obviously don't want to pay uk road tax so will SORN the vehicle and will therefore not have to take it back for MOT every year. If I 'forget' to register the car in Italy and so would not pay the Italian Bollo and cost of changing plates etc would I be breaking the law, and can you get Revizione for insurance purposes on an unregistered car in Italy ?  I doubt it very much, but know other people doing this......

I guess that it is dangerous to drive an unregistered car and possibly there are penalties. And what about insurance? I don't think that it would be advisable.

Angela Fuller wrote:I have been offered a free car by a friend in England.  I obviously don't want to pay uk road tax so will SORN the vehicle and will therefore not have to take it back for MOT every year. If I 'forget' to register the car in Italy and so would not pay the Italian Bollo and cost of changing plates etc would I be breaking the law, and can you get Revizione for insurance purposes on an unregistered car in Italy ?  I doubt it very much, but know other people doing this......

There is an interesting link in an old post of mine in the other place:
www.italymagazine.com/community/post/final-definitive-answer-hoary-old-car-taxmot-question

In case you have problems accessing the old site files this is where my answer is directed:

I suggest posts #89 & #16 are all you need.http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/sorn-mot-registrati...

I love the idea of reclaiming unused tax as you leave the country! (post #7)

In bocco al lupo;)

According to article 132 of the Italian "codice della strada" you can only drive a car imported from abroad on non-Italian plates for up to 12 months. During that time you have to display a GB sticker on the car as it has GB plates. Macerata province seems to be particularly hot on this and I do know people who have been fined for not having the sticker.

So, the answer is yes after 12 months you would be in contravention of the Italian "Codice della Strada". From Chris's link the Geneva convention would say you have to start paying Italian road tax after 6 months.

If you are stopped by the police in Italy they may ask to see the UK MOT document - it has happened to me. A SORN only exempts you from UK road tax and as Chris's excellent link says it is not due if your car is abroad anyway.
There are specific sections in the Codice delle Strade concerning having an accident when your car does not have a current 'revisione'. The fine for driving without one is up to €674 and for not registering your car within the 12months up to €334. All from the ACI site http://www.aci.it/i-servizi/normative/codice-della-strada.html.

Your call really.

What great info.... Well done all... This type of post is what will make the forum... So much detail 

I do not think I would risk driving around in a UK registered car over here for too long. I know of one person who did and was always pulled up by the Carabinieri and in the end had to change over.
There are some who do it and think they are clever, but one day they will be targeted. If you stick by the rules in the UK, then why not here? OK, it will cost you something, but better that than being targeted and risking fines.

On a slightly related subject, some British friends of mine were stopped in their legit IT reg vehicle, and told by the polizia that because they had UK photo ID licences which were more than ten years old that they should either renew them or change them for IT licences. The licences had not reached their expiry date.

Apparently - my friends did some research - the policeman is correct. I believe that if you today get a UK photo driving licence (and there aren't any others) it will need renewing in ten years, because the photo will be out of date and thus that ayatollah beard you shaved off etc. etc.

One to watch.

On this related subject, as from the 19th January 2013, there is a new European Driving Licence that looks like a credit card. It should replace the current 110 driving permits that we have within the EU 

I was told that having a UK driving licence, whether 10 years old or not, was not adequate 'identification' if stopped by the polizia and that one should always have a passport with you when driving.

Does anyone know whether this is true or false?

ghiro wrote:I was told that having a UK driving licence, whether 10 years old or not, was not adequate 'identification' if stopped by the polizia and that one should always have a passport with you when driving.Does anyone know whether this is true or false?

There are two 'different' laws in this area. The first is that you must carry your driving licence when driving, and the second is that you must always carry identification. 


I don't know any Italians who don't always have their carta d'identita in their wallet/handbag, (though I cannot see that this carries any more information than an Italian driving licence). In fact, a UK driving licence carries more info than a UK passport (because it includes an address, which the passport does not). 


So, from the point of view of the codice della strada IMO a driving licence is perfectly acceptable. (A passport, without a driving licence, would not be - if you are driving).


It'd be fun to run this one past an Italian copper - I shall put myself in that position!

The Original Relaxed wrote:

ghiro wrote:I was told that having a UK driving licence, whether 10 years old or not, was not adequate 'identification' if stopped by the polizia and that one should always have a passport with you when driving.Does anyone know whether this is true or false?

It'd be fun to run this one past an Italian copper - I shall put myself in that position!

When I was stopped recently for a routine check I was specifically asked for my passport.  Not having it with me I looked suitably stupid (not difficult!) and produced my UK Driving Licence.  Signore carabiniere took it off to show to his superior and, after a lot of clucking and head scratching, it was returned to me and I was sent on my way.

I'm fairly certain that fluttering my eyelids had no influence on the interaction  

Please let us know how you get on, in due course, Lax.

Well from what I understand, Lax is absolutely correct. When driving you need a valid driving licence, but at any time (driving or not) you need ID out and about here in Italy and if you don't have a carta identita, then you need your passport, which from what I understand from since first coming to Italy on holiday (1997) has always been the case?

I'm sure that, as you say, Lax is (as always) absolutely correct.  

BUT she does not say I must have my passport with me at all times.

Once I leave my house with my passport there is a chance, albeit remote, but still a chance I'll lose it.  So, if given the choice, I'd rather leave it safely at home until I set off back to the UK.

Well my point, after a bit of thought, was that any (UK or other EU) photo driving licence should be acceptable as a generic ID.

I completely agree that a passport is a document you should always regard as mega-stealable, and take great are of. A carta D is much less 'valuable' since you can replace it for (I think 5 euro) at the comune.

ghiro wrote:I'm sure that, as you say, Lax is (as always) absolutely correct.  BUT she does not say I must have my passport with me at all times.Once I leave my house with my passport there is a chance, albeit remote, but still a chance I'll lose it.  So, if given the choice, I'd rather leave it safely at home until I set off back to the UK.

 .. well you can't....    ! I'm sure someone here will find you the relevant article of law that states this is the case and the fine that goes with it... However,  I  agree that the loss of your passport would be very bad (and costly no doubt), so best you know where it is... i.e. in your bag...    Fortunately we have our Carta to carry around (and have been asked for it when stopped for no reason (because they can here), so can tuck our passports safely away (the OH tells me we don't, we carry them around... Mmmmm).

The Original Relaxed wrote:Well my point, after a bit of thought, was that any (UK or other EU) photo driving licence should be acceptable as a generic ID. :)I completely agree that a passport is a document you should always regard as mega-stealable, and take great are of. A carta D is much less 'valuable' since you can replace it for (I think 5 euro) at the comune.

A couple of tips:

If you have more than one copy of your UK DL then you can leave one in all the vehicles & also carry one with you. I have 3 or 4 copies of my old pink DL which I leave in my car, scooter etc. They are all so old & battered I can't tell the copy from the original now anyway! 
I also have a new Photo Licence which I keep safely for car-hire etc.

If you occasionally return to the UK (or say you do) in you car for visits etc. then you can keep your UK registration, or buy and run a UK registered car indefinitely.

I would avoid like-the-plague registering my UK car in Italy & will return to the UK frequently enough to avoid the necessity.

My friends husband is a traffic cop & says that in his region (Umbria) they avoid messing with foreigners as the paperwork is "non vale le pena" I usually find that the caribinieri don't bother with our RHD UK registered car but do stop us on my Italian registered scooter! I usually resort to polite stupidity which is my default setting these days.   So far so good!

In bocco al lupo.

I think that the problem stems from the definition of what an identity document is all about. I can remember reading in Italian that it is a document issued by a government for the sole purpose of proving your identity. Then, this means that it is either a passport or an identity card (sorry, the UK does not issue one) and rules out a driver's licence, which is issued in order to allow you to drive a car... It has to do with what Montesquieu defined as "the spirit of the law".

Many thanks for the replies.  It is as I thought, the car must be registered in one or other country, so I will probably not accept my friends kind offer of the car.  Just out of interest, can you get revizione on a car not registered in Italy ?

Sorry, a foreign vehicle, even an EU vehicle, cannot go through "revisione" 
 as per www.revisioneauto. eu

I thought so.  Thanks for that Gala.

We have an Italian registered car and we try to do the 'right'(crazy eh) thing in that we pay our bollo, speeding fines and revisione as and when due.

I do have a query re the revisione, I assume the same (UK) rules would apply if I am out of the country when my revisione is due? I'll probably need to get it done 2 months early  

V

I'd tend to err on the side of simplicity and get my revisione done early! However, if your revisione runs out on (eg) Aug 2nd, you do have until Aug 30th to get it done, so with any luck you could time it to only lose a month (by getting it done on the first of the month preceding the expiry month)

Here is a Wikipedia page, comprehensively referenced, which is absolutely clear that an ITALIAN driving licence, plastic or paper, (with a photo) does count as a documento di riconoscimento according to the relevant Italian law. 

I'm still researching whether this applies to a non Italian driving licence, but I think it does. 

HOWEVER, an Italian licence issued after January 19th 2013 no longer carries an address, so I wouldn't be surprised if that means it is suddenly seen as no good as an identity document; except that the law about ID documents is only concerned with identifying a person, and certainly UK passports are acceptable and do not carry an address. 


http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documento_di_riconoscimento_in_Italia

Because of my great age, I have an elderly persons bus pass, which has my likeness and name on it, but little else.
Has anyone used one of these as an identity card? (and got away with it?)

The Original Relaxed wrote:I'd tend to err on the side of simplicity and get my revisione done early! However, if your revisione runs out on (eg) Aug 2nd, you do have until Aug 30th to get it done, so with any luck you could time it to only lose a month (by getting it done on the first of the month preceding the expiry month)

EXCELLENT !!..........That is superb, I can definitely work around that window !!

On a separate note.............

How do I reply (other than a pm) directly to a specific answer..............I feel this will be lost in all of the other comments ?

V (very old !)