Why do we do it?

First topic message reminder :

Followers of this forum could, quite reasonably, wonder why sane people chose to live in Italy in the first place or have a home there.  

Recent posts have referred to:

• earthquakes
  
• problems with healthcare cover
  
• what happens if you move to France
  
• claggy clay soil
  
• buying a house
  
• the water supply
  
• neighbours coveting your land
  
• IMU
  
• expensive car insurance
  
• political uncertainty
  
• etc etc
  

Despite all this I'm very clear as to why I love living in Italy.  Are you too?

Don't keep talking about Liverpool, you'll have Miss D on here soon....

Calm down calm down !!

Now then.............

What on earth is happening in Syria, who are the baddies, does anybody know? Who will Obama be helping ?

V

Lets hope that the Warmongering Yanks (no offence), do not drag Europe into another pointless, un-winable, suspect War. Based on what I've seen on Youtube and other media both the FSA & SSA are as bad as each other i.e. a bunch of unregulated, murderous thugs just out for revenge and killing anyone who has opposing views.
Sounds Familiar?? welcome to the Middle East.

The Syrian problem originated many years ago and it is not going to be solved with a futile war. But then, the leaders of the USA, Britain and France seem to be very keen on it. I totally support the views of Pope Francis, calling not only on Catholics and Christians, but also making an appeal to all people of goodwill, whether they are believers or not to dialogue and not to fight

It is ridiculous to just go blasting countries out of the water. I thought George W was a warmongerer, I did not think the same of the Nobel peace prize winner Obama    .

Where do 'they' go next ?

Hopefully Italy keeps well out of it.

V

I agree and hate everything about war, but when do you say "this can't keep going on". What is the point of having conventions (as two faced as some are) if you allow them to be broken and anything goes against women, children as well as those you are fighting against...

I agree Steve, maybe the UN voting needs to be changed, but then to change it you probably need 100% agreement !

I think the latest 'solution' seems a reasonable workaround, but then, why aren't all chemical warfare products chained up in some sort of Fort Knox establishment, and further, who is actually producing them !?

It is as if warfare is an industry in itself.

V

In my opinion, the biggest problem is that the UN is uneffective and could be compared to a toothless tiger. It needs reform and credibility, and this does not mean the use of force. The UN should always be seen as a peace keeper... but this is a very difficult role, particularly in the case of armed conflicts.

Vicino, the Arms trade is probably the biggest single Industrial sector in the World, and most definitely the wealthiest. Companies such as Aerospace, Honeywell, MacDonald Douglas and General Dymanics to name but a few make Billions every day in building and supplying HiTech killing machine to the World. That is not to mention the Smaller Arms manufacturers Berretta, Sigsauer, and Kalashnikov who provide any nutter the chance to kill and maim innocent civilians.
Unfortunately as this Sector has huge financial and political influence in Governments and many politicians lobby for these companies, that it is highly unlikely that any escalation in arms will slow down.

The thread has gone well off of the topic of "why do we do it"
Perhaps. we all like to see what we can get away with, e.g. using UK registered cars over the normal time limits etc. But then, that is a personal choice.
As regard to food, there is nothing particularly special about Italian food, it's just another cooking style. I find it very bland, but had never eaten it before coming here, so not a culinary experience, despite what others may say. Always stayed well clear of Italian cuisine in all of my travels abroad and in the UK and coming here showed the reason, even more.
Scenery is good, as are some of the old towns etc, but have seen far better.
Now I wait for the bullets to fly!!!!!

Geotherm wrote:The thread has gone well off of the topic of "why do we do it"Perhaps. we all like to see what we can get away with, e.g. using UK registered cars over the normal time limits etc. But then, that is a personal choice.As regard to food, there is nothing particularly special about Italian food, it's just another cooking style. I find it very bland, but had never eaten it before coming here, so not a culinary experience, despite what others may say. Always stayed well clear of Italian cuisine in all of my travels abroad and in the UK and coming here showed the reason, even more.Scenery is good, as are some of the old towns etc, but have seen far better.Now I wait for the bullets to fly!!!!!

Geo I must take back all the nice things I've ever said, thought or read about you. Bring back the negative thanks Admin, this guy needs it!!!!
Ok, food is a subjective personal thing,  but you will have to tell us what you like... Also where you like to eat it... Are we talking eating out here, as I also find eating out in Italy can be very hit and miss...

Calm down! We have had this discussion before either here or in the old place and I fully agree that food preferences is a very personal thing. In my case, I also find some of the Italian cuisine a bit boring, too much pasta, too much rice, too much tomato sauce, but it also depends on how good is the cook. Personally, I love saltimbocca alla romana, simple and delicious and for dessert, I go crazy over "zuppa cotta".

Italian food is the ingredients, best in the world! They know what's good and will accept nothing less... Ok not all of them, but most. It does help growing a lot of the stuff here... We just had this conversation ourselves at dinner... The best they have here cannot be exported as it's at its peak and would not travel...  Because lots of people grow their food, they know what's good and force higher standards in the shops. I have no idea why this does not permeate to their restaurant food.. Then again we rarely eat out as we love our own version of Italian... Pasta and rice we love, but again I think this is down to personal preference. To some all pasta and rice is the same, to others all curries are the same and to some all meat is the same and simply meat cooked different, but the same... To us it's the picking of it fresh and cooking and eating it... Oh of course with the wine (again personal choice) to your liking ...

Well I say if you're tired of Italian food you must either be :-
a) tired of Life
b) very unimaginative
c) incapable of reading a good Italian cook book.
Italian food like many other countries foods are not solely based on a few staples in this case Pasta & Rice. Get a good cook book or look up online, there are marvellous dishes to be had catering for every taste.... even yours Geo!!

Oooooo errrrrrr.  We get back 'on thread' and look what I've started!   

In my (humble) experience Italian food is regional and also varies according to what is in season.  For instance last October OH & I went to our local favourite restaurant for Sunday lunch.  'Should I book?' I asked.  'Not necessary.  After all it is October' came the reply.
When we arrived the restaurant was rammed.   The owner's father has a reputation locally for finding the very best wild mushrooms and the word was out that he had excelled himself.  People had come from miles around to sample the fruits of his labours!  Luckily, being regulars, a vacant table was miraculously found for us! 

But I absolutely agree that 'Italian' food in the UK is often deeply disappointing.

As regards 'scenery and old towns' I'm sure that Geotherm is right that, here or there, there are one or two that are better.  But as you move up from Puglia to Lombardy, on both sides of the Apennines, I can't believe that overall anywhere exceeds what Italy has to offer.

I should have included in my post that it was mainly from eating out, but it may well be just in this area. Just a couple of examples are grilled lamb chops, which you pay a fortune for, arriving as a bone with a tiny piece of meat on it and usually cooked to death. The Fritto de Mare, where you either just end up with a load of calamari, or those mixed with prawns. Even trying to get a nice "blue" fillet steak, is difficult, as it always gets to be overcooked.
OH, who used to eat in a number of London Italian restaurants, has even commented on how poor it is here and it must be regional, although, we stayed with a old friend in Tuscany and even he said that the standards had declined and he has lived there for over 20 years.
Virtually all of our cooking is now done at home, with a occasional pasta dish.
Used to get some good New Zealand lamb chops from Sapore di Mare, but unfortunately they seem to have stopped carrying them any more.
Anyway, at least the weather has stayed pretty good recently.
Apologies for starting WW3!!!!!

Geo, it is most unfortunate that most Italian restaurants do not reach the standards of excellence they should, particularly taking into account the great ingredients they can count with. Fresh ingredients are the pillars of good cooking, both at home and in a restaurant. I must confess that my favourite Italian restaurant is located in Little Italy, New York Peasant . Absolutely superb!
And another anecdote, it was the Florence chefs of Catherine of Medici who taught the French how  to cook....

I'm being bold here, apologies, these are our local favourites............

Pasta: L'arte del gusto in Piane De Falerone (VERY simple)
Lamb: La Taverna in Santa Vittoria (and VERY cost effective)
Fillet Steak: La Torre in San'Angelo in Pontano (difficult to beat anywhere)
Pizza: Vecchi Sapori in Penna San Giovanni (get the Pizza Max !)


V

We go to Italy on Saturday and I've already booked 2 Sunday lunches to take visiting friends to which have been superb in the past. One is an agriturismo with a zero km policy who also create dishes from the past which have disappeared and are totally delicious, Montagna Verde in Apella, Lunigiana. The other, when we have a few days in the Chianti Hills, is at Badia a Coltibuono, beautifully presented imaginative food eaten on a terrace with superb views.
Here in England we went to an modern Italian restaurant with exciting food (sort of Italian Masterchefish ) for Oh's birthday, Nonsolovino in Chesterfield.
The restaurants in the hills local to our Italian house can be very predictable but their homemade pasta is so light and tasty.
We mainly cook for ourselves and find the ingredients in Italy, even from the supermarkets, taste so much more like what they supposed to than a lot of the tasteless stuff here.
On the whole I'm not overimpressed with the coastal restaurants we've tried in the bottom bit of Liguria, including the Cinqe Terre. Many seem too lazy or unimaginative  to change their menues. But there are real "foodie" places in the hills - you just have to search them out. ( We're open to suggestions re Ligurian/North Tuscan coast)

... apart from Milan, I agree eating out in Italy is hit and miss, bit like the UK, with just a few more "hits". Milan and Bergamo we found delightful. But Italian food/dishes we just love to cook ourselves so we get exactly what we like...   

Vicino wrote:I'm being bold here, apologies, these are our local favourites............Pasta: L'arte del gusto in Piane De Falerone (VERY simple)Lamb: La Taverna in Santa Vittoria (and VERY cost effective)Fillet Steak: La Torre in San'Angelo in Pontano (difficult to beat anywhere)
Pizza: Vecchi Sapori in Penna San Giovanni (get the Pizza Max !)


V

Thanks for the recommendations, will have to try them out. There are a couple here that are quite good, the Vecchio Moro at San Ruffino and the Marchiagiano in Sarnarno. Stopped using the Osteria at San Ruffino, as the food went downhill, but that is my view of course.

Flip wrote:Well I say if you're tired of Italian food you must either be :-a) tired of Lifeb) very unimaginativec) incapable of reading a good Italian cook book.Italian food like many other countries foods are not solely based on a few staples in this case Pasta & Rice. Get a good cook book or look up online, there are marvellous dishes to be had catering for every taste.... even yours Geo!!

No Flip, not tired of life, unimaginative, or incapable of reading.....
There are so many excellent cuisines in the world, so I would not put Italian on a pedestal and say it is the best in any way. Having eaten Lebanese, Chinese, Caribbean, Thai, Cambodian, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Mongolian, Japanese, Saudi Arabian, Mauritian, Comoran, French, German, Swedish, Spanish, Tunisian, Moroccan, Indian, Greek, Turkish, Malaysian, then I do hope I have a little idea of food and able to make a constructive critisism. Probably missed a few out!!!
I am not unimaginative with food. Last night I had scallops cooked with basil and a little chilli, on a bed of rice. This weekend it will be a Thai fish curry with Prawns, scallops, monkfish, crab claws and shark in a coconut sauce.
Tonight is a Paella, which obviously is close to a rissoto.
Have plenty of cookery books here, including ones with Italian food recipes, Spanish, Middle Eastern, Asian, International in and do look up on the internet, for new recipes, as variety is the spice of life, especially with food in my opinion.

I would agree with what you say, Geo, regarding variety. Using the fresh ingredients  widely available in Italy, it is possible to create great dishes which do not need to be strictly Italian. I very much prefer an ecclectic cuisine, taking the best of both ingredients and cooking techniques and creating my own dishes. I own a huge collection of cookbooks, which I love to read to get inspired, but I hardly follow recipes and -unless it is a very special recipe - I never measure ingredients. But I do put a lot of love into what I cook. And I think that this is the "secret" ingredient.

I have to say Geothem I think it's a bit of a Marchigiani thing. The food is very, very simple with little to no herbs or spices used. No sun-dried tomatoes and little to no garlic. The quality of the ingredients (unless you are very unlucky) is generally very high however.
We have almost without exception eaten much better outside of Marche (I have lit the blue touch paper so I am expecting a flurry of disagreement now). We've not been down south yet but certainly what we have eaten further North has been more tasty and stimulating to the taste-buds. Now we live in Apricale in Liguria we can even have a Thai, Chinese, Moroccan, Sushi (best I have ever eaten anywhere in the world) or even an Indian (in Menton but not far) without travelling more than 1/2 an hour. After nearly 10 years of solely Italian food (I too am talking about eating out) it really makes a nice change.

It is probably the Marche style, as have had far better when I go to meetings in Soave. Obviously picked the wrong area to live in here!!!!