Education ratings - where is Italy

BBC LINK showing UK 2nd in Europe behind Finland, but Italy not in the top 20 in the world (to be honest I was surprised the UK was so high).

Very interesting.  When it comes to secondary school education the UK doesn't even make the top 20.  It's because of our excellent universities (Oxford, Cambridge & Imperial are usually in the top 4 in the world) that we're elevated to 6th on these ratings.

Interesting that the States are so low

I am not convinced by these statistics. Even within the same country there are huge differences between schools, colleges and universities. The USA would be an ideal example. As it is the case with the UK - and here I totally agree with ghiro - a handful of excellent universities can push those percentages up; however, not everyone can attend those universities and there are huge differences between teaching institutions. In the USA parents pay fortunes to buy houses within certain schools catchment areas, which shows that education can vary enormously from one school to the other. Education is difficult to measure and I guess that it all depends on which parameters you use.

Carciofo wrote:Interesting that the States are so low

I wonder whether Walmart (the world's largest public corporation) gives up a clue here Carciofo: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=walmart+fat+photos&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=pNlrU9yYLKOV7AbT2oCABA&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1708&bih=830&dpr=0.8  

ghiro wrote:

Carciofo wrote:Interesting that the States are so low

I wonder whether Walmart (the world's largest public corporation) gives up a clue here Carciofo: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=walmart+fat+photos&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=pNlrU9yYLKOV7AbT2oCABA&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1708&bih=830&dpr=0.8  

Love it!

OMG Che schifo!!!

I think it's all a numbers game and if you start taking numbers into account then I think the UK's rating is very good indeed. Apart from Japan which appears to have a population at least twice the size of the UK the next nearest country with a comparable population is Germany at #12. Interesting to see Canada at #7.

Sorry, but this does not look as a numbers game. If that was the case, Finland, Singapore, New Zealand or Australia would not be in that list...

Actually, I didn't really explain what I meant. I suspect that it is easier for countries with smaller populations to achieve excellence than those with larger numbers. If you take the United States for example, education is extremely patchy and as a result there are huge swathes of people who are in reality not educated, well or otherwise.

I don't know what the tipping point is, but except for Japan (which is a huge anomaly in my theory), the country with the largest population in the top 10 is the UK (which by the way has a sizeable student population of non UK residents). There is then a collection of countries with larger populations only from # 12 onwards. Even so, I totally accept that simply having a small population isn't a decisive factor on its own.

As Michael Gove knows only too well, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.  This proves absolutely nothing.  Finland as we know produces the best English speakers in the world and the highest suicide rate - are they connected? Im sure some statistician could find a link...   Tables such as these are produced to prove or disprove points - they mean nothing.

Modi, South Korea and Singapore students also have a high suicide rate. And I agree with you in that these statistics leave much to be desired. And how do you measure excellence in education? Certainly, some institutions are acknowledged worldwide and they can "deliver! excellent graduates because they have the "pick of the crop" when they do their admissions. I worked in education for quite a few years. My last job before retiring was as Director of International Marketing for a prominent English school for foreigners. I had the occasion of dealing with students from many countries and it was easy to see that results were varied and depended on individuals and not nationalities. Yes, Korean and Japanese parents put a lot of pressure on their children; however, they did not get spectacular results because of that pressure. Also, I noticed that most children lacked general knowledge and, in my opinion, it constitutes the foundation of a well educated person.

.. perhaps you need to find some better stats that suit your own favourite country folks.... 

Has this anything to do with the fact that Italian kids do not start school until 6 where as both our grandkids where only just over 4 when they started

I do not think that there are differences amongst educated people regardless of nationality. Same applies to ignorant people. You find them everywhere. I think that differences do exist in accessing education and then, one should also take into account that money can always buy the best education whether in your own country or elsewhere. For this reason, general access to a good, solid education is vital to ensure equal opportunities. And this does not imply university studies. I do not believe in putting everyone through uni if this is not their vocation. We need well educated lawyers, doctors, engineers, chefs, architects, scientists or psychologists, but we also need well trained and qualified bricklayers, plumbers, technicians, kitchen hands, food processors, cleaners and agricultural workers.. to name a few professions and trades.  And the availability of these studies or training to everyone is what , IMO makes a difference in education.

pas55 wrote:Has this anything to do with the fact that Italian kids do not start school until 6 where as both our grandkids where only just over 4 when they started

Compulsive, primary or elementary education starts at the age of 6 and this, with few differences, happens in most countries. Before that age, most Italian children attend non-compulsory pre-school, kindergarten, "asilo", etc and this is also standard practice in most countries.

I think people misunderstand the difference between educated and intelligent people, it is the latter that matters as some of the former can also be ignorant.

Sorry Steve, but the definition of ignorant is an uneducated person Ignorant Definition ; however, an uneducated person can still be an intelligent person. Many illiterate people can be highly intelligent, but lacking in education. On the other hand, education helps to develop the natural intelligence that the person may have. Now, the big difference is that education can always be acquired. Stupidity is in the genes.  

... yes read your link correctly Gala, it is only one definition/meaning.

I think 2 in this link well applies to so called educated people at times Proper educated link...

Steve, I must praise you for your efforts in contradicting me, but the English word ignorant comes from the same word in Old French (also in Modern French), which, in turn, originates from Latin, and, in all languages, it means UNEDUCATED? So a person cannot be educated and ignorant at the same time. It is a contradiction. Stupid... well... you would guess that a person who goes through tertiary levels should have some level of intelligence. The definition under Nr 2 is pretty pathetic... It makes me think that the Oxford dictionary is not what it used to be. I would prefer these definitionshttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ignorant ; at least they are funnier.  

... ah yes Gala shame your UK prejudice shows through yet again... I would never consider contradicting someone as obviously well educated as yourself!

UK prejudice, Steve? In case you did not know, I am about 1/4 British. And so is hubby. It would be against my own heritage and I love traditions. I have my great grandmother's beautiful oil portrait looking at me all the time as a reminder. She was born in London  and I have quite a few relatives in the UK. I also love fish and chips and puddings. What could be more British? 

Gala Placidia wrote:UK prejudice, Steve? In case you did not know, I am about 1/4 British. And so is hubby. It would be against my own heritage and I love traditions. I have my great grandmother's beautiful oil portrait looking at me all the time as a reminder. She was born in London  and I have quite a few relatives in the UK. I also love fish and chips and puddings. What could be more British? 

The Falklands ?  

Boston tea party....?

Sinking of the Spanish armada  .