Migration to Italy

Truly truly shocking.  One just wonders how awful their home life must be to risk everything to reach the EU.  And, I understand, many of them are unaccompanied children.

I hope we all realise how lucky we are to live the relatively comfortable lives that we do. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27628416

The problem is huge, ghiro, and there is no easy solution. By the way, the figures quoted in the article are not correct, numbers are much higher. It has been said that there are currently some 100,000 people waiting in Morocco and other areas in Northern Africa to come to the EU and the numbers grow every day. I read this very interesting article from Malcolm Fraser, former Australian Prime Minister. He is talking about the Australian situation with Sri Lankan and Asian refugees, but what he says applies everywhere Refugees

Well 300,000 according to the article Ghiro posted and I wonder when this will turn to millions... ? The "West", in particular the capitalist countries have their “chickens coming home to roost” so to speak. The hype surrounding the “great” life style and the promotion of our material obsession is arrogant to say the least. What with the USA interfering here there and everywhere and now Russia and China joining in it is little wonder so many people are attracted by the paths of gold they are being promised. Unfortunately there are only so many lighters and the like that people will buy.

The number of african migrants into Sicily is significant, in the area south of Siracusa.  I understand it is more significant on the west coast from Trapani and Marsala up to Palermo, geographical proximity to the coast of N Africa being a major factor.

There are numerous reasons for people to migrate, not only because they want their economic status to improve. Many of them have no "status" whatsoever. They live in countries devastated by wars, famine, opression, corruption, exploitation... all sorts of problems and most of them caused by small groups of their own people who hold all the power. What is the rest of the world going to do? Intervene? Then, everyone will start critizising them. Do nothing? Then, they will be blamed as well. The UN should do something... but they are toothless tigers and if they would take drastic measures everyone will complain. There is no easy solution and to start pointing fingers indiscriminately will serve no purpose.

Gala Placidia wrote:There are numerous reasons for people to migrate, not only because they want their economic status to improve. Many of them have no "status" whatsoever. They live in countries devastated by wars, famine, opression, corruption, exploitation... all sorts of problems and most of them caused by small groups of their own people who hold all the power. What is the rest of the world going to do? Intervene? Then, everyone will start critizising them. Do nothing? Then, they will be blamed as well. The UN should do something... but they are toothless tigers and if they would take drastic measures everyone will complain. There is no easy solution and to start pointing fingers indiscriminately will serve no purpose.

Living on the same planet (some of us do), we have every right to point the finger at whoever we see as adding to or causing the problems. They all have one thing in common, self interest!

"He who is without sin among you, let him to be the first to cast a stone"  I doubt that there will be anyone...Steve, your old fashioned cliches are sounding archaic, so I gave you a quote that is even older, but still valid...almost 2000 years later.

Gala Placidia wrote:"He who is without sin among you, let him to be the first to cast a stone"  I doubt that there will be anyone...Steve, your old fashioned cliches are sounding archaic, so I gave you a quote that is even older, but still valid...almost 2000 years later.

Yeh Gala! You were likely around at the time or the one that said it      

No Steve, I wasn't there, but I believe in Him more than some believe in "proletarian" cliches. This is why I have first hand experience in the horrors surrounding migration, because of the many hours I have spent as a volunteer with migrants and refugees through Caritas and other organisations. I do things instead of reading about them....

Gala Placidia wrote:No Steve, I wasn't there, but I believe in Him more than some believe in "proletarian" cliches. This is why I have first hand experience in the horrors surrounding migration, because of the many hours I have spent as a volunteer with migrants and refugees through Caritas and other organisations. I do things instead of reading about them....

That's them Gala those "doer's " that say they believe in "Him", but don't do as they say he preached!

I'm with Gala on this, the desperation and fear that must drive ''these'' people to risk life and limb to move from their homeland to a totally alien Country is beyond belief. Most don't do this just for a chance at economic salvation, I'm sure they do it as a last ditch attempt to escape the nightmare they live every day.
We should all be thankful we are not in their situation and spare a thought or more for these poor people.

Yes, Flip, the situation of some of these people is so awful that the last thing they would think at or imagine is to get a financial gain or even improvement. The majority of them are refugees who have nothing to loose. Also, their societies have no respect for human life, let alone dignity. It is a different world. What can be done? To improve their living conditions, to educate them , to make them self-sufficient... providing a war lord doesn't come up and ruins all the work done. I am involved in a very small but effective project in a remote place in Africa, between Congo and Rwanda and it is currently working very well, but we are always fearful of its future.

... oh yes, that's why I watched loads of them just yesterday, better gear than me  (ok not hard) and the best mobiles going - of course money has nothing to do with it...

Steve... you are simply hopeless! Is it the "vino sfusso"? In any case, I lighted a candle for you when I went to Mass this evening. You do need some divine help!  

Oh dear Gala... mass on a Saturday night - you definitely have the fever! Ah, I feel a song coming on here...

As to the wine, well I'm sure you will only drink the best, or should I say, what someone has told you is the best!

There is no redemption for me or for you I'm afraid, as the problem is the "me" and "you" and you are far too educated to ever be saved (or understand)....

Whatever you say, Steve, whatever you say    Absolutely hopeless!!!  

I would have thought it is patently and painfully obvious that the UN can and will do nothing.  First it needs permission from the concerned states, and secondly it needs permission from America.  American does not want refugees, but cannot refuse them if the UK asks.  Therefore no UN involvement.   Anybody watching TV news or reading about the people arriving in Sicily knows everything but the truth.  Nobody is helping, and Im afraid to say Gaia that the Church has done least of all.  They are abandoned on dockside and told to sort themselves out.  The EU must act even though we have la Pen, Farage and their ilk baying for the opposite.  It is impossible that Italy alone could face an influx of hundreds of thousands of people.    Italy has a first port of call centre with 800 bedspaces, but not that many beds as the visitors have burnt most of them.  And nothing is done.  Malta ignores the boats or sends them on to Italy.  The north of ITaly want to make it illegal to enter the country without permission, thereby bringing back the old Fini Bossi laws which would make it fine to turn such people away.    You can argue about why they come for ever  - in a few years they will be here because Europe has water -.... but the fact is they come, because it is a huge business.

I have to say that I TOTALLY agree with modicasa on this one. It is a horrendous state of affairs for all involved and yes (Steve) you do see them with their smartphones and what other 'goodies' that they may want to bring with them.

They then proceed to head to the country which is the 'best' for them, mainly where they can get the best life. What percentage actually stay in Italy? Then one asks why do they not stay in Italy?

People are making money out of these people and it will not stop until a 'door' is closed. The church should/could step in and help if they are not already ?

V

Steve, just because you see a bunch of black guys, with smart trainers and clothes and a new smartphone doesn't necessarily make them illegal immigrants only here for the 'rich pickings' of the gullible Europeans. Did you bother to enquire as to how they managed to acquire such trappings, or would you prefer to see 'these people' dressed in binbags and rags, racked with the ravages of deprivation and hunger?
I think you need to have a word with yourself over such stereotypical, xenophobic and reactionary assumptions.

Flip wrote:Steve, just because you see a bunch of black guys, with smart trainers and clothes and a new smartphone doesn't necessarily make them illegal immigrants only here for the 'rich pickings' of the gullible Europeans. Did you bother to enquire as to how they managed to acquire such trappings, or would you prefer to see 'these people' dressed in binbags and rags, racked with the ravages of deprivation and hunger?I think you need to have a word with yourself over such stereotypical, xenophobic and reactionary assumptions.

Flip, for a start... I don't see BLACK guys ... I see people, unlike you by the sounds of it... I do think, and therefore I don't see the WHITE man gullible, I see us as exploiters so stuck up our own backsides and ignorant of the fact, that it is us that need the so called education! This is the point people like you seem to miss - it's you that needs to look at yourself - that's the very point I was making in the first place and have done so many times on here if you bothered to take note!

Sorry Steve, but you are so full of Sh!t. trying to wriggle out of a situation by twisting others comments. They say attack is the best form of defence, and no I havn't bothered taking note of your inane, inaccurate ramblings that you have apparently made previously, as I find your comments mostly trivial on matters like this.
No one made a judgement on your posts, and I only said ''Black Guys'' as I assumed wrongly or rightly that this was the demographic that had offended you by having Smartphones etc (and if they were White/Asian/Indian subcontinent would that have pulled your chain?).
Try voting UKIP you seem to have a lot in common, rather than having a pop at someones faith, cheap shot man, cheap shot!!

Modi and Vicino, you can be assured that the Catholic Church does an enormous amount of work to help with immigration not only in Italy but throughout the world with two of its main organisations devoted to help with this problem: Caritas and the ICMC. Acually, Caritas Italia realeased in January its XXIII Report on Immigration and most of the statistics that you see around are based on it. Would it be possible to do more? Perhaps, but more volunteers and resources will be needed. So I am going to ask everyone who has to lodge a tax return to remember that this help is needed and have a look at what is done with that money http://www.chiediloaloro.it/

And if you want to know more about the organisations which I have mentioned, Google those words and you would be able to read the XXIII Report, which contains very interesting information.

Gala, I'm delighted to see this, I wish they would publicize a LOT more..........the more publicity the better, I'm sure they would get more help ?

Thanks for the link...............I guess there are also LOTS of other individuals and businesses who are also doing similar, all in the background ?

V

I agree with you, Vicino, the Catholic Church should divulge more this information... but then, there will always be those who would critizise them for doing that. You cannot please everyone. What I can assure you is that any help, whether it is volunteer work or donations is not wasted. Fortunately, Pope Francis has an excellent rapport with the media and he is totally in favour of helping migrants and refugees, not only within the EU, but also throughout the world. One of the first things that he did, soon after he was elected, was to visit Lampedusa and say that it was "una vergogna". He does not mince words!

Yes, Francesco went to lampedusa and spoke.  That was a year ago.  And since then... nothing.   THe Vatican press office is doing marvellous work.  Francesco says alot of things, but actions are rather thinner on the ground.   Personally I would never give my 8/1000 to the church, I would loathe for it to go to build Bertone's penthouse, pay legal bills for recalcitrant priests or shore up the IOR's money laundering.   Caritas here is doing nothing.  Nor are the priests or the congregations.    
In fact the good church goers of Sicily are ignoring the issue completely.  Even trying to get the poor dead buried is causing problems.   I would advise everyone to give your 5/1000 to Emergency, Amnesty or Save the cHildren