Cars

First topic message reminder :

I have an Italian 19 yr old car on Italian plates.  I pay my bollo and revisioni (not sure about spelling) and obv insurance.  Why is it so many people I know from the UK SORN their cars and pay neither the equivalent of MOT or Tax.....?  These are people who can more than afford to but have been told by the expats here not to bother and swan around in their cars for years.... Friends with uk plates who do take their car back for MOT and tax every year were recently stopped and asked for MOT certificate....maybe the Italians are getting wise to it after all !

If you mean are you registered in the AIRE - then yes - according to the PRA you can have a car, as you can be 'resident' in Italy even though you arent - in the same way that you can have a prima casa without having to live here.

I think there is a distinction between being resident and AIRE. We have to pay our IMU etc as second house and we can only have an estero account at the bank.

Sorry I misunderstood - I thought 'Italians living abroad' meant you were in the AIRE

It seems to me chrisnotton,  that you are saying that it's perfectly OK to drive a car that is not registered in either Italy or England, and hasn't been officially MOT'd or Revisione'd in either country,at the same time not paying road tax in either country. Surely this cannot be right???

if you go further down the sites that Chris Notton suggests you get to this:-

'Trouble is that when you de register your vehicle in the UK, to comply with the law in practically every country that you visit it must be registered. Your Green Card insurance or legal minimum insurance (EU) will be invalid as soon as you de register.

Within the Vienna Convention countries its an absolute must to have current vehicle registration to be legal and comply with the international treaty that allows free(ish) movement of vehicles - and a lot of coppers and border guards KNOW what a UK tax disc looks like, as well as the uniform registration documents. Its even harder for UK residents as so many people speak and read English and can easily read a UK V5.

Vienna Convention summary;
"The vehicle must meet all technical requirements to be legal for road use in the country of registration.

The driver must carry the vehicle's registration certificate, and if the vehicle is not registered in the name of an occupant of the vehicle, proof of the driver's right to be in possession of the vehicle."

I haven't checked as to the date of this  so feel free, modicasa, to tell me I am out of date but along with Angie I do feel that flouting  the laws of a country and boasting about it is a shoddy thing to do - something no-one should be proud of.

I have a broad back and any adverse comments will easily flow off it - I just know I sleep easily at night and have no fear of being stopped by the police!

In any  case, it looks as if help may be on its way: http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/motor-vehicle-registration/index_en.htm

Wish they'd bloody well get on with it. Might save me the €600 I'm going to have to pay shortly!

chrisnotten.....you may be interested in Gala's link too...but probably not !  Hazy well said !  Too many are getting away with it, some who can afford to pay 1000's of euros each year on electricity bills they claim causd by their daughters use of hairdryers and straightners....you know who I'm talking about !

Hazy I didnt contradict you at all about registration of cars or MOTs or any of that - it was a specific point about licence expiry.  I agree with you totally on driving vehicles around with no registration - even if they are SORN, they still need to be matricolato in Italy after 6 months or a year.

Hi modicasa - nice to hear we are in agreement - let's hope this posting may make the miscreants think again!

Hazy I doubt it, as the cost and bureaucracy involved will prove to much for most. After all the most important thing is that the Insurance is legal, so when a vehicle is involved in an accident, people are not left trying to claim from a person without valid insurance.

We are registered in the AIRE in Bagni di Lucca, as I said we pay for second house and have an estero account at the bank because we are not resident. Does that rule us out from not having an Italian car ?

Sorry Flip, I don't agree. From what I can gather most of the people involved in this avoidance are the ones who rent out their villas for the summer and gain well over €20k over this period, none of which is declared. They can well afford to be legal here but arrogance prevails methinks ....................

No, not so, surely the insurance will be invalid if the car is not legal Flip.... ?

The thing I can't get my hear round, sorry about this ! if you leave a car in Italy long term  you cannot register it on Italian plates unless you are a resident!! Am I right? It's a sort of catch 22!!

You're correct Lancashire Lass. I agree, I can't see how the insurance can be legal when the vehicle is on contravention of Italian driving laws (ie been here more than 6 months without getting registered) and has no road-worthiness check.

Totally agree Penny.....I do think those people told not to re-register their cars and sit back and relax may be in for a shock......not before time !

If you are registered in the AIRE then you are to all effects and purposes a resident - ie you can buy a prima casa, have a resident bank account and according to the PRa who I spoke to last week about this - can buy a car.

Thanks for the reply modicasa. I wish the bank would agree with you!!

Ill see if I can find the relevant pice of paper.  I have AIRE clients who bought primacasa, have prima casa and pay no IMU, have residents banks accounts and cars.   You are in the AIRE but non resident (fiscally) in Italy?

Hazy wrote:Sorry Flip, I don't agree. From what I can gather most of the people involved in this avoidance are the ones who rent out their villas for the summer and gain well over €20k over this period, none of which is declared. They can well afford to be legal here but arrogance prevails methinks ....................

Well you must live in an affluent area Hazy firstly to be able to clear over £20k in the rental market and brave as well not declaring it.   The 6 or more people we know who have UK reg cars, not taxed, are struggling to make ends meet and doing what work they can to get by, aside from the 2 retired folks, who can't be arsed to drive back each year.

Flip, please go back and carefully re-read my post that you have highlighted above. Your response which reads as if you think that I rent out my home and  do not declare it, is an assumption and an incorrect one at that.
I live in a two bedroom apartment and have never had any inclination to rent it out and never would be able to even if I wanted as I have no other property to live in. My post referred to people I know living mainly in the 'Golden Triangle' who do exactly as I state.
Do you know the saying ' If you assume, you make an ass out of u but not of me' ?
Perhaps worth bearing in mind.

Well, the people I know of who do make money out of renting out their properties here for yrs paid nothing when they resided in the UK....  Now living here they only declare part of their income as OH not resident so money slides into their account.....Of course Hazy does not rent out her flat.....only to the 3 cats she is looking after so that is not an issue.  Can someone please tell me what AIRE is ? Many thx...

AIRE is a register of Italian citizens who live outside Italy.

And here is the official information straight from the Farnesina and in English AIRE