Cars

by **Angela Fuller** Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:57 am

First topic message reminder :

I have an Italian 19 yr old car on Italian plates. I pay my bollo and revisioni (not sure about spelling) and obv insurance. Why is it so many people I know from the UK SORN their cars and pay neither the equivalent of MOT or Tax.....? These are people who can more than afford to but have been told by the expats here not to bother and swan around in their cars for years.... Friends with uk plates who do take their car back for MOT and tax every year were recently stopped and asked for MOT certificate....maybe the Italians are getting wise to it after all !

by Flip Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:53 pm

Hazy wrote:Flip, please go back and carefully re-read my post that you have highlighted above. Your response which reads as if you think that I rent out my home and do not declare it, is an assumption and an incorrect one at that.I live in a two bedroom apartment and have never had any inclination to rent it out and never would be able to even if I wanted as I have no other property to live in. My post referred to people I know living mainly in the 'Golden Triangle' who do exactly as I state.Do you know the saying ' If you assume, you make an ass out of u but not of me' ?Perhaps worth bearing in mind.

I was not referring to you Hazy, merely to the 'people' you must know who have this lifestyle, in the ''Golden Triangle'' wherever that is; so it was probably misread and no slander intended, I just missed a ''they'' out of the sentence.
I assume nothing other than some people are quick to ire at the slightest instance.

by Hazy Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:20 pm

Flip, before you send something you should read it again to ensure it says exactly what you mean and not just assume it does because you could land in trouble. I can't see where you would put the 'they' you omitted to change your meaning.
It wasn't misread because I asked at least 7 other people to give me their interpretation of your remarks and they all agreed with me.
This was not 'Quick to ire at the slightest instance'; what you wrote was blatant libel, whether or not intended. For your information; slander is spoken, libel is written.
The Golden Triangle is an area in Le Marche around towns like Amandola, Sarnano, Gualdo etc. If you look on a site like Owners Direct you will see that properties rent in these areas starting from £700 + to £3,000 a week so the figure I mentioned is easily attained.
Can we finish with this now because I'm becoming bored with justifying myself to you.

by lancashire lass Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:37 pm

Thanks modicasa, we are not fiscally resident in Italy, we spend about 4 months a year there. The bank (was banca toscana now siena) says that being in AIRE is not sufficient we have to be resident to have a "proper" bank account and the question of the IMU, we are assured by the commune that only residents can claim first house for IMU. When the IMU was introduced it was left to individual communes to decide if they would give a discount to AIRE members ours decided not to!! Unless you know otherwise? There was a bill passed in May regarding this and I am still waiting to find out what exactly it means to us, in the mean time we will keep paying Imu for second house until we can get some clarification! We do get a discount from Enel for the electricity though so it's not all bad!!

by modicasa Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:40 am

You're right - at the moment IMU is up to the commune as to whether they charge, but from next year 2015 IMU is not payable by those in AIRE, but TASI is.
In AiRE you are inscribed at the anagrafe which is enough for the PRA to allow you to buy a car.
You can buy as a prima casa and take advantage of the tax breaks without having to be resident in the commune.
Even though my branch of Unicredit has given my AIRE clients resident accounts - it seems that its a mistake on their part. According to the Farnesina, you must be fiscally resident in ITaly to have a resident account, which by definition a membre of AIRE cannot be, so you are stuck with a nonresident account, which - depending onyour bank - is worse than useless. Apparently the new web banks allow the facilities of a resident account - i.e. you can make bank trasnfers throughtout Europe, have cheques and all sorts, that Italians banks wont allow for non resident accounts. And you get a discount from ENEL , but no discount on your rubbish I wouldnt think!

by Hazy Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:04 am

Have you tried Banco Posta?
I have a friend who is not resident here but is restoring a farmhouse. With his codice fiscal he has opened current and savings accounts, has a cheque book and can make transfers from the UK etc. He pays a bit more for these accounts as a non resident but otherwise everything seems to work ok. I've no idea if you could buy a car with an account with them but may be worth asking the question?

by **Gala Placidia** Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:17 am

I found these comprehensive instructions http://www.it-consul.org.uk/en/information-and-services/consular-service/residence-office
And here is some more information from the Italian government talking about possible discounts. LL perhaps you should go again to the Comune with a copy of this document http://www.lineaamica.gov.it/risposte/variazioni-anagrafiche-cittadino-italiano-allestero

by lancashire lass Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:41 pm

Thanks to everyone who has offered advice etc. Whilst it would be nice to have a proper bank account in Italy (they cost less) we can do most things with our estero account direct debits etc but they charge an arm and leg for the service. They are very helpful though and we are glad we have the account, some bills that can't be paid by direct debit we have sent to the bank and they pay them for us so I can't complain.
I shall look forward to 2015 to see if AIRE do get a reduction in taxes, but a year is a long time in Italian politics!! and we already get a 25% reduction with our rubbish tax for not being resident, so you can't have it both ways !!

by stevegwmonkseaton Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:27 pm

Final thought LL, more hassle, but less cost check out Transferwise here TW_link or CurrencyFair CF_link Think the former would be cheaper for bills...

by lancashire lass Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:31 pm

I have just re read my post and realised that I may not have explained things properly, the bank charges for the account are very steep not for the direct debits. We get a lot of service from them, advice on investments etc so I am not complaining.

by **Gala Placidia** Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:33 pm

Yes, LL, we are also very happy with the service provided by BMPS (ex Toscana). They are extremely helpful and they also provide us with all the personal attention that you detail. Well worth the extra money that we may pay, as having to make an extra trip to sort out things will be far much more expensive. As for taxes... they are not as big as in other countries and if the money helps the town and it is well spent... we cannot complain.

by chrisnotton Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:20 am

Gala Placidia wrote:Yes, LL, we are also very happy with the service provided by BMPS (ex Toscana). They are extremely helpful and they also provide us with all the personal attention that you detail. Well worth the extra money that we may pay, as having to make an extra trip to sort out things will be far much more expensive. As for taxes... they are not as big as in other countries and if the money helps the town and it is well spent... we cannot complain.

I know this post is about cars & we have strayed onto banks. I don't know if any of you get Gareth Horsfall's brilliant ezine but a recent edition had a good article about choosing a bank. Consequently I will be changing my banking arrangements soon. I have cut the relevant bit out:

But it is simply daylight robbery and too many of you could be getting ripped off (I have no better words for it I am afraid) because you think that 'it is just not worth the hassle of changing' or 'they are all alike' or 'banking back home is much better'.

However, this is no longer the case. Italian banks have really started to compete for business in the last few years and there are options available. If you are happy with internet banking, then even better.

I personally use 2 banks (personal and business). My personal account is Fineco. (who? I hear you say.). Fineco! (part of the Unicredit group). I am VERY satisifed with the service they offer. It is an exceptionally well operated online bank and even won the Global Finance Award for Best bank in Italy in 2013. It is 100% online. Now, I imagine that you might be thinking, online - Italy - errr, not sure, I need to keep an account where I can talk with someone about it if things go wrong. (My wife refuses to use the bank on that basis and she is Italian. She is slowly being brought around to my thinking). But, for basic banking it operates very smoothly. And I have emailed them many times and got reponses within 24 hours.

And the best part is:

ZERO canone. In other words no monthly, quarterly, or annual charges just for having an account.
FREE withdrawals from ANY cash machine in the whole of Italy.
FREE credit card cash withdrawals from any Unicredit machines in Italy(and there are many).
ZERO cost bank transfers in Italy.

My other bank for the business is Banca Popolare del Commercio e dell'Industria. This does not mean much, but it is part of the larger UBI banca group network.

I chose this account at a branch as it is business account and I need to speak with my bank Director from time to time, but otherwise I operate everything online.

I pay only 5 EUR a month for this account and 0.50 Eur to make bank transfers. I can also withdraw cash from the UBI Banca group bancomats for FREE. The account, in general, is more expensive than the Fineco account but it is a business account and it has to be expected.

However, there are other personal account options with similar cost structures to Fineco, such as Ingdirect, Webank, Chebanca or Hellobank.

A good comparison website is www.confrontaconti.it

My simple message is to pay some attention to your bank account in Italy, if you have not done so for some time. It is not difficult to change or use accounts, as in the past. With basic Italian you can do it without problem.

Hope this is of interest.

by **Gala Placidia** Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:51 am

Thank you Chris, but none of the banks mentioned in the article have a branch located 300 yards from our house or anywhere near Bagni di Lucca. As LL stated, Monte dei Paschi di Siena, gives us plenty of personal service, including paying on our behalf bills that we cannot pay through direct debit. And if we have any problems, we call them from overseas and they fix it. This kind of personal service is worth the extra money and it gives us peace of mind.

by stevegwmonkseaton Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:58 am

Thanks Chris, great information. We have banked on-line in the UK since it started, we did have more than a few misgivings way back then and have even more these days. However, not having to deal with a bank suits us very well, but you do need to have very good security and even then I would not put too much in at a time, especially in an Italian bank.

by stevegwmonkseaton Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:29 pm

Guilty as charged for resurrecting this post, but it does cover some very valuable information (right, wrong or indifferent). One of the side issues raised on licence renewal and a few others to boot. ACI link . Not too sure how up to date the information is, but it might be useful to others following this thread way down the line...

by stevegwmonkseaton Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:40 pm

Kind of on topic.... Do people leave a car for months over the winter (here in Italy or for that matter in the UK)? There is lots on-line advising what to do e.g. disconnect the battery, leave a trickle charger on it, some jack it up others not, fill it with fuel and a few more. Just wondering what others do?

by Bartholomew Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:54 am

An additional point re changing to an Italian licence - as already stated, a European licence doesn't have to be converted until it expires (or until you reach the age at which renewal would be compulsory for an Italian licence). I changed my UK licence to an Italian one when it expired ten years after moving here. A perhaps little-known fact is that a foreigner of any age with a new Italian licence falls into the same category as new drivers who have just obtained their licence - i.e. zero limit for alcohol.

by stevegwmonkseaton Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:46 pm

Thanks Bartholomew, not that we would be impacted, but it adds to the mix of information gathered. I'm not too sure if it was posted here, but I seem to recall a link to the ACI site that had all the road rules and regs here (also in English), shall attempt to hunt in out.

by The Original Relaxed Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:42 am

Bartholomew wrote:An additional point re changing to an Italian licence - as already stated, a European licence doesn't have to be converted until it expires (or until you reach the age at which renewal would be compulsory for an Italian licence). I changed my UK licence to an Italian one when it expired ten years after moving here. A perhaps little-known fact is that a foreigner of any age with a new Italian licence falls into the same category as new drivers who have just obtained their licence - i.e. zero limit for alcohol.

I find this difficult to believe. Where did you get this information?

New drivers are also restricted as to the power of cars which they can drive for three years, so to impose this restriction on an EU person converting to an Italian licence would be extremely onerous - probably meaning that they had to change their vehicle.

I think that the operative word is conversion - a conversion doesn't put you into the category of neo patentato as far as I have researched. (For a non EU person, who has had to take an Italian driving test in order to get a licence, I think they would be neo patentati.)

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