Living Far Away From Family

I was wondering how those of you who are living in Italy full-time or at least 3/4 handle the issues of family, especially those with grown children, being so far away?

Ever since we left Italy many years ago, I have been pining to move back. Now that my husband is getting closer to retirement age it is looming ever closer. Hopefully, he will retire in 4 years or so, once our youngest son has graduated college and has had a year or so afterwards to get situated.
My husband has very mixed feelings about this as he feels like he is abandoning our kids. Our daughter is 31 and lives about 3 hours away and our son will be about 23 when we move. Part of the problem is that my husband feels he did not get to spend enough time with our children while they were growing up due to working long hours and being on-call. He loves Italy and definitely wants to buy a place there but is torn about whether or not to keep our current house, which would be a financial burden, having two homes to maintain. About 4 years ago, we got our Italian citizenship and our children have it as well. Currently under discussion is how we can best each get what we want. I have proposed coming back to the States for two months a year and renting, but he doesn't know if he will be happy with that. I do really want to integrate into the community, and not just feel like a visitor. We both speak Italian. I lived in Italy for 4 years and my husband eight. Guess I'm just looking at creative ways to make this work. If any of you have been in the same boat, I would really appreciate hearing about your experiences.

Lisa, we have been in a similar predicament and you will be amazed to see how things sort themselves out. We are older than you and our children are also older than yours. Both live in San Francisco, our permanent residence is in Spain and we also have the house in Tuscany. Two months after we bought it, our youngest daughter went through an unexpected and painful divorce. We thought that we had to sell the place as we were had no time and energy to look after it and our daughters needed us in the USA. Well, the old mill did not think the same and managed to get rid of two buyers, the first one died of a heart attack and the second could not get finance. Meanwhile, we were travelling non stop between three countries and thinking that we had to buy a place in San Francisco...Finally, our eldest daughter is buying a large house with a guest suite for ourselves and the girls do not want us to sell the mill, because they love it... As you can see, fate will sort things out. The only thing is that you will have to get used to jetlag and travelling, but we feel that this keeps us young. In any case, don't fight fate. It will lead you. Best wishes with your future plans.

Wow a very hard question to answer... We took that exact decision a few years back and still wonder about it now... After numerous major events, we still think we have made the right choice. Never thought about missing the kids growing up because I was at work, but I suspect that is because I realise they have their lives to live and that would be far more important than my need to bond... But it is still a very hard decision, however it was perhaps a little easier for us... The oldest lived 2-3 hours away and the youngest was still at home, well almost as she was at uni... So we decided that by living in Italy, if they came out for holidays, we would likely see no less of them than we did.. As it happened things did not turn out as we thought... Events (son-in-law found to have MS) changed our tact, we always intended to keep a family home for the youngest (despite the cost) and for us to return to should we ever want to... So we ended up down sizing our home in the UK and relocating near our oldest as we thought we might be needed at some point... We see no less of them than we did, ok we engineered our visits when the oldest had our 1st grandchild so we could be there for a few months and visit more often in their first couple of years... Being retired you can do this... If there is anything we would do different (or consider) it would be renting property instead of buying. We did do so in Italy for 7 month, but think if we knew then what we know now, we may have done so for much, much longer... Always keep something in reserve and have plan "A" , "B" and right through to at least "M" and you will almost have everything covered...

A difficult decision Lisa C.

Judging from your post (I'm a newbie here) you currently live in the USA and your husband is a doctor (working long hours and on call etc).

All I can say, that may be helpful, is that we have 3 children (and a grandchild) of a similar age to yours and live in S.W. England and Italy (7 - 5 months/year).

As it happens all our children now live and work in London. And they all feel that coming to see us is much easier when we're in Italy! And, for them, visiting us here is not only a pleasure but also a holiday!

However, for you, this might not be so easy. So I would make the following observations:
1) As parents we have a responsibility to launch our children into life. Once we've successfully done that it's their responsibility to carry on while we, their parents, finally get an opportunity to enjoy ourselves as we would wish
and
2) If our children find it difficult to visit us because of financial constraints then we can chip in to help them.

I hope this is helpful.

A real dilemma and one that we're facing. We're moving permanently next year - the youngest will be 21 and the oldest 25. Our rationale as has been previously said is that we'll see more of them in terms of quality time than if we were in the UK. We currently live in the Midlands and my son is a couple of hours away in Manchester - we've seen him only twice this year (my mum lives in Swanage and hasn't been well so we're spending a lot of time there). However I'm over in Italy for 5 weeks this summer and he's coming over for a week which would never happen in the UK. My daughter is at university but spends most of her holiday time with her boyfriend - she's coming over to Italy for 4 weeks in the summer.

What it will be like for "real" I don't know. What I do know is that it's easier for us to nip back to the UK than it is for you to the states.

Maybe in the first instance rent your house out in the states and rent in Italy for a couple of years to see how it goes?

I truly believe life is for living and I truly believe Ghiros comment re our job is to set our kids up then we get to do the things that we didn't have time for/couldn't afford to.

Also in this day and age with Skype/facetime etc communication links are amazing. I've already booked in to do bedtime stories with my grandkids/baking by Skype!!! I'll be there virtually if not always physically. Now this may all be pie in the sky as grandkids are a long time away but is how I see my future life working

Well, I have to slightly disagree... According to my husband, children are a mortgage that we never repay... and it is not only a matter involving just money. We had a terrible experience with our youngest. Married for 7 years and literally "dumped" overnight. It almost killed her and we had to pick her up, help to recycle her professionally and give her all our support, morally and financially. Sometimes things just happen and this is why I mentioned "fate". We do not know what may happen in the future, so, in my opinion, the best thing is to keep options open. On the other hand, we cannot live always thinking that the sky is going to fall down. Nobody can tell you what will be right for you, but keep in mind that you only live once.

Gala Placidia wrote:Well, I have to slightly disagree... According to my husband, children are a mortgage that we never repay... and it is not only a matter involving just money. We had a terrible experience with our youngest. Married for 7 years and literally "dumped" overnight. It almost killed her and we had to pick her up, help to recycle her professionally and give her all our support, morally and financially. Sometimes things just happen and this is why I mentioned "fate". We do not know what may happen in the future, so, in my opinion, the best thing is to keep options open. On the other hand, we cannot live always thinking that the sky is going to fall down. Nobody can tell you what will be right for you, but keep in mind that you only live once.

That's called being a parent and we all should know by now that it's for life!

I think many of us are in the same position. We are only 'part time' in Italy, still retaining our original family home in Surrey. We had intended to down-size this and move somewhere else within the UK. However, one reason to retain it is that it seems still to be used as the family base, even when we are not there! Our two daughters are 29 and 27, the eldest now settled in Australia and the youngest high flying in London, very independent and on the outside doesn't need us at all. However, despite all this, I know they will both feel bereft when and if we finally sell the house.

I think it shows the stability in which they have been brought up - it certainly gave them the confidence to fly the nest but they have always believed it will be there. Don't know if this is good or bad, but it is how it is.

Having said all this, they both love visiting Italy and I would agree that the 'quality time' we have together in Italy far exceeds what we would ever have had in the UK. My oldest and her partner say that all they miss when in Australia is Italy! We are now expecting our first grandchild in Australia which adds a whole new dimension to the puzzle.

At some time in the future the tables will have to turn and we will rely on them instead of the other way around. We only provide emotional stability but that is still very important.

Although we are talking emotions here, the financial aspect is in a way the most important. If you always know you have the money to fly to visit the offspring, or pay for them to visit you, the feeling of freedom is there. Without the financial ability to travel it is very easy to feel trapped. When calculating how much it would cost us to live in Italy we always add far more for travel than we would envisage so that it is never a consideration in an emergency.

Do we dare talk about our own parents? My mother is now in a care home with Alzheimer's. She is very well cared for and when I am in Italy I fly over to visit every four/five weeks. However, the fact that I 'abandon' her and go to Italy has caused a lot of family conflict and I am now not really on speaking terms with my brother, despite the fact that it is what my mother would have wanted. Speaking to friends I find this is not unusual but has caused me an awful lot of heartache.

Just a very brief thought - I see more of my family on their visits here and also on my annual trip back to the UK. Everyone's circumstances vary of course but there is no point in sacrificing one's dreams on the off chance that one's family may need you at some point in the future. It is not as selfish as it sounds - my family are pleased that I am happy here and know I can get back to them if needed. Perfetto!

I moved away from my home when I was 15 years old. At that age I couldn’t wait to get away. I stayed away from home a long time and have never gone back to my roots. I guess I never thought how it would affect my family, just about myself.
I am now a grandmother and about to leave the area where my little uns are living.
Am I sad? Why hell yes! Am I looking forward to my next adventure. Why hell yes!
I intend to be around to tell the tales to my grandkids of my adventures and it’s what will make them want to visit me when I’m old and grey.

My mum moved into a care home in January this year - she also has Alzheimers and has Dementia too. She's a 4 hour drive away from us in the UK so we see her every 3/4 weeks - which when we go to Italy will become 4/5 weeks. The only saving grace about Alzheimers and Dementia is that they have no memory of when they last saw you - it can work both ways....we'll see her on the Saturday and then go in again on the Sunday and she'll say I haven't seen you for weeks. Or after 3 weeks she might say so when you were here yesterday...........
My brother lives only an hour away so goes a little more often - but thankfully is very understanding. We both take our turns differently so when she was in hospital I was there by her side almost 24/7 with my brother at work on the phone if I needed him - he's a doctor so completely "gets" these terrible diseases
My mother also wouldn't want me to stay in the UK for her - she loves Italy too and is always asking if we've moved there and when can she come and visit
It must be very hard if the family in some way or other isn't supportive of the situation. We're going to keep a place on in the UK so if we choose not to live in Italy full time we have somewhere to come back to.
Having options and financial flexibility is I agree really important. I think the being "stuck" bit would be really important
Lots to consider!

Grown up children and elderly parents are issues that most of us have to deal with at some stage. Family support is important, but there are cases - such as the patients with Alzheimer's or other debilitating diseases - where the best care for them is provided by nursing homes or similar institutions. As long as the family keeps an eye on their condition and cares for them, their needs are fulfilled. I looked after my elderly mother because her mind was alert, but I had to get extra help because there were things that I could not do by miself. In retrospect, I should have got day care or something similar for her, but, at the time, I was not keen on that.
I totally agree with the idea of having options and it is also true that financial flexibility and stability are important to ensure peace of mind whenever we are looking at the possibility of moving - either permanently or in a temporary way - to another country.
Grown up children is another matter. They have their own lives to live, but it is good for them to know that there is a place that they can call their family home. And this home, can be anywhere in the world.

ghiro wrote:A difficult decision Lisa C.

Judging from your post (I'm a newbie here) you currently live in the USA and your husband is a doctor (working long hours and on call etc).

All I can say, that may be helpful, is that we have 3 children (and a grandchild) of a similar age to yours and live in S.W. England and Italy (7 - 5 months/year).

As it happens all our children now live and work in London. And they all feel that coming to see us is much easier when we're in Italy! And, for them, visiting us here is not only a pleasure but also a holiday!

However, for you, this might not be so easy. So I would make the following observations:
1) As parents we have a responsibility to launch our children into life. Once we've successfully done that it's their responsibility to carry on while we, their parents, finally get an opportunity to enjoy ourselves as we would wish
and
2) If our children find it difficult to visit us because of financial constraints then we can chip in to help them.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks very much Ghiro. My husband is a veterinarian and has worked a 12 hour day or so for many years. Your advice has been helpful and I appreciate your responding.

stevegwmonkseaton wrote:Wow a very hard question to answer... We took that exact decision a few years back and still wonder about it now... After numerous major events, we still think we have made the right choice. Never thought about missing the kids growing up because I was at work, but I suspect that is because I realise they have their lives to live and that would be far more important than my need to bond... But it is still a very hard decision, however it was perhaps a little easier for us... The oldest lived 2-3 hours away and the youngest was still at home, well almost as she was at uni... So we decided that by living in Italy, if they came out for holidays, we would likely see no less of them than we did.. As it happened things did not turn out as we thought... Events (son-in-law found to have MS) changed our tact, we always intended to keep a family home for the youngest (despite the cost) and for us to return to should we ever want to... So we ended up down sizing our home in the UK and relocating near our oldest as we thought we might be needed at some point... We see no less of them than we did, ok we engineered our visits when the oldest had our 1st grandchild so we could be there for a few months and visit more often in their first couple of years... Being retired you can do this... If there is anything we would do different (or consider) it would be renting property instead of buying. We did do so in Italy for 7 month, but think if we knew then what we know now, we may have done so for much, much longer... Always keep something in reserve and have plan "A" , "B" and right through to at least "M" and you will almost have everything covered...

Steve, I was wondering why you mentioned that you wished you had rented longer? In retrospect, what would have changed had you done so?

Thank you so very much to all of you who took the time to tell me how you handle this difficult situation. I really appreciate it and have found your stories and suggestions to be helpful. It is so hard to figure out the best way to do this but hopefully by being open-minded and flexible it will work for both of us.

Have a family meeting and discuss everything very openly. In any case, best wishes with your future plans!

Gala Placidia wrote:Have a family meeting and discuss everything very openly. In any case, best wishes with your future plans!

Thanks, Gala, that's a good idea too. At least our children and family have known for many years that this has been a goal of mine to move back. I have never made a secret about it and in fact, probably have talked too much about it over the years as I have been pretty obsessed with moving back to Italy. It has been in my blood ever since we had to leave to return to the States and every time I am back there it feels like coming "home".

Lisa, we only live once. If it is so important for you, perhaps there is a reason why you have to do it. As I said, I am a strong believer in fate and there may be a motive why you have to be in Italy at a certain time. If your family is aware of your projects and nobody is against them... go for it. Besides, it is not like in the old times. You can be in touch with your family whenever you want. On the other hand, be a bit conservative regarding the final cost of your project. Always keep enough money in the bank to travel at short notice. Then, you can have peace of mind...

Wifes son lives in Thailand and has done since prior to the Tsunami and before that he spent a year in Australia. We have only visited him a couple of times, but always keep in touch through Skype with the webcam. It may be that as he was in a boarding school he became very independant, which was good for him.
He has only been to Italy once, which was before the house being renovated in 2004 ( got through 5ltr bottles of wine in a night ...... must be the Aussie influence ... )

Gala Placidia wrote:Lisa, we only live once. If it is so important for you, perhaps there is a reason why you have to do it. As I said, I am a strong believer in fate and there may be a motive why you have to be in Italy at a certain time. If your family is aware of your projects and nobody is against them... go for it. Besides, it is not like in the old times. You can be in touch with your family whenever you want. On the other hand, be a bit conservative regarding the final cost of your project. Always keep enough money in the bank to travel at short notice. Then, you can have peace of mind...

Thanks Gala, I am doing my best to save as much as possible to be able to have flexibility with travel funds so we can make several trips per year, which will hopefully satisfy my husband. If a vineyard were to magically appear in the picture, that would certainly sweeten the deal! He loves to make wine and we have 40 vines here. Unfortunately, they were decimated for the past 2 years, just when the grapes were about ready to harvest. We now have to figure out the best way to protect them as the bird netting was useless!

Geotherm wrote:Wifes son lives in Thailand and has done since prior to the Tsunami and before that he spent a year in Australia. We have only visited him a couple of times, but always keep in touch through Skype with the webcam. It may be that as he was in a boarding school he became very independant, which was good for him.
He has only been to Italy once, which was before the house being renovated in 2004 ( got through 5ltr bottles of wine in a night ...... must be the Aussie influence ... )

Thanks Geotherm! We do use Skype with our son when he is at college, and it is fun to be in touch that way. Our kids are quite independent, it is more that my husband likes to have a close relationship with them and spend time together.

Lisa, you may be able to get the vineyard that will make everyone happy. This is a buyers market and you may find that bargain which was not available before. In any case, best wishes and keep us informed

Gala Placidia wrote:Lisa, you may be able to get the vineyard that will make everyone happy. This is a buyers market and you may find that bargain which was not available before. In any case, best wishes and keep us informed

Now, that would be wonderful! I haven't seen much of a price drop in southern Marche, where I have been focusing for the past 8 years or so. We will be going there for 2 weeks in September, after spending a week back in Basilicata, where most of my husband's family originally came from, aside from a grandmother from Trieste. He has this romantic notion of going back to where it all began to live. We'll see!

You might not see much of an asking price drop in Southern Marche but you will definitely find vendors more willing to negotiate. Many are very, very keen to sell. Don't be put off!

Thanks Penny, that's very good to know. In the past, an Italian friend in Pisa who is a civil engineer, told us to offer 30 - 35% less than the asking price. Would this cause offence? Also, is there any way to find out what the person selling the house paid originally or if not, some sort of realistic valuation? I know from experience that some realtors have really told their clients to bump up the asking price, even more, in some cases, than the seller thought the property was worth.